Suyi, Thanks for the links in your comment. Most interesting. We've got a good offsite discussion already underway. If you'd like to join in, contact me and we can include you in. Thanks. -- Mitchell

Cyrano, I had also considered making a board game about parecon. At the moment, I'm working on a possible electronic game, but there's no reason why we can't also work on a board game based on the model. We've already got a card game already created. Let me know if you'd like to pursue this further. Thanks. -- Mitchell

its just an innocent games.. I like christie's suggestion revolutionary type of games.. we could widened people interest by broadening their horizons further.. from economy, to social life and revolutions.. so what is the medium we could use? flash or shock wave ? 2D or 3D ? what borrowed character could we use or players could choose to be? I dont play games, however i do have some schooling designing them.. what i do personally miss is pareconeer knowledge.. ( paraconeer = a pioneer who implement parecon ) is there anyone good designing characters?

kowey, what would you think.. could we design 2 games together.. One with a board and dices similar to monopoly, with cards, wizard etc.. ( mainly because some may find playing virtual games difficult, personally I play chess with a Board and virtually). and one that is virtual, with multiple levels, where the winner(s) contribute at making a more just society..and could receives a REAL ZNET MEDAL and AWARD and signed for understanding or promoting altruistic values.. during the games additional medals and honors could be bestowed, medals bit like the Order of Lenin, President Fidel Castro received.. I like the virtual idea too, because you could anticipate that the creation and creation of a pareconeer society could generate violence from the establisment, so blowing up few buildings with a grandiosity similar to V for Vendetta could get entertaining. of course such activities should be encouraged and rewarded.. You got to provide fun while educating..

We do have a playground of sorts, namely, the Znet wiki.

There is even a Hypothetical Parecon page with an attempt at working out some devil-in-detail details. See for example, my attempt at working out what an individual consumption plan might look like. A very discouraging experience, for what it's worth.

That's all the more reason to begin working on this proposal to start turning things around. And Games for Change lining up with Microsoft? Ugh.

*clicks*

Hey look! Games For Change just announced an "Xbox Partnership" with Microsoft! I'm sure they'll help us promote a parecon game now!

*clicks again*

"Dude, when does Grand Theft Auto 4 come out?! I can't wait to play that! Parecon what? Dude, it's Grand Theft Auto 4! Guns! Naked chicks! Car chases! But mostly, guns and naked chicks! Well, mostly naked chicks! And I've already got the only gun she needs!"

Okay, so who's y'all's target demographic for this game? Is this going to be a game for toddlers? Kids? Young adults? Adults? A replacement for bingo at the nursing home?

Whites? Blacks? Palomino horses?

Men? Women? Co-ed naked, like Twister?

BTW, what your link confirmed to me was not the efficacy of gaming as education, but rather, that Time Warner operates in New York City. Others may have gotten a different banner ad, though. Honorable mention goes to the CNN.com box at the top of the page, whose placement isn't well-designed.

http://www.ny1.com/ny1/content/index.jsp?&aid=60777&search_result=1&stid=101 This seem to confirm, that games can be a a good carrier for education..

I think you raise some excellent concerns here as well. Indeed, there is a very real risk that this idea could go nowhere and that we could very well be wasting our time. My feeling is, we'll never know unless we try. And what's more -- the gaming scene has made unbelievable inroads beyond just teenagers playing on the Nintendo at home (which is pretty much how I spent high school). There are symposia, national-scale competitions, even an entire cable TV channel. As an industry, digital games have now surpassed Hollywood in annual revenue. And now, political activists have begun using games for positive social change. An example is the group Games For Change. You're right to say that such games wouldn't automatically by themselves spring parecon into mass left consciousness, but I think it's another tactic that we can and should consider.

I can seriously not watch those channels without wanting to throw the TV out the window and blow my brains out. It's more disturbing that Teletubbies, which say a LOT! The whole fucking thing is just a fantasy market anyway. Pangaea Oslo, Norway

games just do that, the time spent playing a parecon game
could result in unlimited education , games are not always just games, they can also be a powerful tool of advertising.

Which is why I asked about the other guy's "non violence civil disobedience" game -- something I have never heard of, and I doubt anyone else has either.

A parecon game is a waste of time. If you must do this, you'd be better off to create the "parecon drinking game." So everyone, say, watches CNBC (or some business report) and does the following:

1. Take 1 drink every time someone says "free market."

2. Take 1 drink every time someone talks about tax cuts.

3. Take 2 drinks every time an announcer mentions the Dow went up 100 points yesterday.

4. Take 2 drinks every time a young, hot blond reports from the floor of the NYSE.

5. Take 1 drink every time the stock ticker runs during the ads.

6. Take 3 drinks every time someone says the market gives people what they want.

You can make your own. Hell, I suck at this anyway, and I don't drink.

ebpatton wrote: I work in a factory. It's hard enough to talk to people about parecon there, because there's essentially zero in the way of a left-support structure for it (once you get past Z), and working people are far too jaded to build it from scratch (at least the people I'm around -- maybe in other industries, people's mileage varies, but I seriously doubt it). I think the lack of support for -leftist- or social values relates to education, too much dollars is spent on catechism, and not enough where its really needed. Also between game and reality, there is only small step, give the strong believ to people that they have the power to change the world, they might as well try it.. games just do that, the time spent playing a parecon game could result in unlimited education , games are not always just games, they can also be a powerful tool of advertising. Forces of evil must be eradicated, Insurgents fight against the slavery imposed on their life, they blow the pentagon or the white house:: player gets extra points, the world becomes a better place.. I aint sure about a virtual game but a game using a board and cards be cool..then design another one for an online experience... I am a rusted programmer, I would have to refresh my memory with C, C++, C #, PHP and etc, and I am not sure my time permit..may be just designing game with macromedia director or with flash..and spread this game over znet networks..

You are right that I am no father or mother, but I do have small siblings and have seen the phenomena enough to make a personal comment on it, in addition to actual research being done in the field. My experience is that small children are altruistic, but this wears off with age as they get to know the society they live in better, and how it works. This gets more and more apparent as they get more friends, and especially when they hit kindergarten and school. By altruistic children I'm thinking children 1 to 3-ish years old. After that society takes its toll on their worldview, and changes them from quite altruistic to narcissistic. Pangaea Oslo, Norway

I'm flattered, but I recommend you quote articles written by people who are more emotionally stable than me (which is pretty much the whole human race, I grant you). By the time you've read this, my mood will probably already have changed, and I'll have pissed yet another person off...

*sighs* I'm just going to come across like a total dick here, but it's okay because I've had plenty of practice. Look, no one is a bigger fanatic about parecon than me. I'm about 15 pages away from finishing Parecon: Life After Capitalism for probably the fifteenth time. But I can't take the whole "parecon game" idea seriously.

If you all do this and it turns out to be the thing that springs parecon into mass left consciousness, I'll happily look even dumber than I do now. I'd give up my eye-teeth if it would raise awareness of the only thing that ever really gives me any hope for the human race. But honestly, I don't this idea is going to go anywhere.

If you do finish it, no one will care. No one will play, unless maybe you can buy ad time during Saturday morning cartoons. And if "Parecon: The Game" is working people's first exposure to parecon, they're going to think parecon's a joke ... or something for kids who watch Saturday morning cartoons.

Go ahead: Flame me. I'm ready. I've donned my flame-retardant clothing and I've a got a bucket of ice and some neosporin handy. I won't resist any expletives you choose to lob my way. "Eric's a tactless dick," and all that jazz...

I work in a factory. It's hard enough to talk to people about parecon there, because there's essentially zero in the way of a left-support structure for it (once you get past Z), and working people are far too jaded to build it from scratch (at least the people I'm around -- maybe in other industries, people's mileage varies, but I seriously doubt it).

God, I hate to be a dick here. I just think you need a more adult approach. (Funny me referencing anything related to adulthood, I know.)

How many people have played, or even heard of, this (non-violence civil disobedience) game?

Parecon : the game Board : countries of the world, Goal to save the world from destructive capitalism, Players.. Thinkers are the ones who suggest parecon approach.. Revolutionaries, Activists.. the Corporations, the capitalist.. are the evil forces to eradicates. the world court to put evil forces on trial an electric chair to fry GWB ass ( this I think Id be fighting over people to be the first to fry GWB'ass we could make kids espouses super heroes characters, with the name borrowed from znet writers.. peterson, chomsky, albert, street

I'm good at programming; just because you may not know how to program doesn't mean that you can't help make this happen. (I help make a TV show, and I started by not knowing a lick about video production, but was able to contribute other knowledge and skills to help make the show happen.) It sounds like you're interested in working on this game idea; maybe we should chat and discuss this further. You can find my email address at http://www.szcz.org/contact. Thanks.

I think the game should be played on a board, where players can interact.. the idea is good, I think because it could help every ones including myself to seek alternatives..

I think its a great idea! There was a similar game created a few years ago about non-voilent civil disobedience:

 

http://www.aforcemorepowerful.org/game/

 

Maybe the developers of that game would be interested in helping create a ParEcon game. I wish I knew how to program, because I'd love to work on something like that.

I can say as the father of a 4 yr old girl and 2 yr old boy that your statement:

"most children are altruistic, and will gladly share whatever they have with others, even if no reason is given"

is so far from reality. I think every parent (or the vast majority in my experience) will agree that children by nature DO NOT ever want to share. I think any parent can tell you that children basically think they are the center of the universe and have to be TAUGHT to share. ALL people are born egoistic and narcissistic. They are TAUGHT to be otherwise. Unfortunately, many if not most don't learn the lesson.

A PareCon game could be a good first step to get more people interested in parecon. The problem is getting people to connect the dots between a game they're playing to the unjust world they are living in. And even harder, to get them to act on this new knowledge they have gained through the game. It's a good first step though. It's important to spread more information. I'm guessing it would be very hard (and expensive) to develop a professional game, and to get it to market (many constraints right there), so perhaps a better option is to develop an online game. I once tried a democracy-type game a la the UN, where you had diplomacy etc, and interaction with other users. Perhaps something similar could be made for PareCon? Pangaea Oslo, Norway

And there have been one or two major triumphs: abolition of slavery and equal rights for women; historically both these oppressions were also regarded as ‘just facts of human nature.' good to know there are people who are convincing.. Thanks Peter.. Mitchell, Somehow, I think that parecon concepts and theory could benefit from being expanded to the mass via educative games, instead of monopoly lets play parecon where the winner make the world benefit of all, a game from which big and little people could experiment social values and and could realizes that there is alternatives to capitalism. If we cannot convince this generation that things must change, lets convince the next generation.. some people may get offended that something as big as parecon be put into a game, but I can see the benefit of trying to expand and reach more people with this alternative.

Certainly the powers-that-be have consistently disagreed--they have expended tremendous energy preventing any kind movement in a social-democratic direction. And there have been one or two major triumphs: abolition of slavery and equal rights for women; historically both these oppressions were also regarded as ‘just facts of human nature.'

 

It is worth noting also, that this argument, in positive form, is an apology for all of the injustice that exits—those making it admit there is a problem and excuse themselves from taking any responsibility for it. To all those that do struggle against injustice it means precisely, “Fuck you.”

This is a very interesting counter-proposal (and echoes this outstanding article). Thinking out loud here, I wonder if there doesn't have to be an either/or situation with these two proposals. I wonder if these projects can't BOTH happen, and BOTH work in concert with one another. Hear me out: A "rope-can" RPG game can gain traction to get mainstream gaming or sporting constituencies involved on the issue, and -- if it grows widely enough -- fuel efforts to pressure American liberal or left media to acknowledge, perhaps debate or report on, parecon -- or economic vision more generally. Likewise, that coverage (or other coverage) can improve awareness of such a game or proposed economic scenario, and give non-economic types both a measure of intuitive sense and imagination for not only saying Another World Is Possible, but in actually crystallizing what it might look like.

One thing we do know is that it is not a part of human nature to be egoistic. According to research most children are altruistic, and will gladly share whatever they have with others, even if no reason is given. Then they grow up and leave the altruism behind in favour of egoism. Logic then tells us human nature is altruistic, but society changes people to be egoistic and narcissistic. Due to how our economic system works, it's a rational choice. Then this rational change is used to argue that it's human nature to be ago, so therefore we cannot change the egoistic economic system we have. It's rather silly. It's like arguing that the US had to invade Iraq to protect the US from attacks the Iraqi would carry out as a result of the US attacking. Pangaea Oslo, Norway

anonymous , you wrote using the royal we, who is we?

No, we don't know what human nature is, but we do have some hints to what it is not. Parecon is based on an unrealistic assumption of human nature, that much we can be sure of.

Antidisestablishmentarianism is still antidisestablishmentarianism. A word. You can define it, but so what?

Funny, anonymous (this anonymous), you know what human nature is. I think of the people who knew what human nature was--De Sade, Hitler, the eugenicists. . . Nobody I respect (from Shakespeare on down) would ever claim to know what human nature is.

Planned economies NEVER work. Never has never will. Utopian fantasy. I agree with the ideal. You can't change human nature.

I think collectivism by any other name is still collectivism.

Good luck.

I have a counter-proposal. Many people here are familiar with Media Lens, the absolutely outstanding British media-watch site run by the Davids (Edwards and Cromwell -- and of course, we can't forget their webmaster Olly Maw!). Media Lens doesn't waste their time going after right-wing British media. They target liberal British outlets like the Guardian or the Independent.

I think that's appropriate. I also think it's a model that could be replicated by the U.S. left, but with a twist: A "fight for parecon" site that targets left-liberal media outlets and groups like the Nation or the AFL-CIO.

That is, just like Media Lens has media alerts they send out and ask readers of to respond to with massive e-mailings to the relevant British outlets, what about a "fight for parecon" effort designed to bring radical left pressure to bear on liberal left outlets and groups to compel them to stop blacklisting parecon?

The Nation (and others) are not going to ever allow discussion of parecon to occur until they are forced to. Ever. Parecon is inimical to their interests. So we are going to have to fight them, and force them to submit to opening up discussion of the model. Otherwise, parecon will continue to languish in left-silence in the United States (while Albert is interviewed on Turkish television, which is simultaneously hilarious and sad when you stop and think about it).

In my own personal opinion, this would be a more effective strategy to raise consciousness of the parecon model than the idea being proposed here.

It would be nice for pareconistas to have a playground to test out ideas.

It would be even better for pareconistas to have more accessible concrete examples that they can point to. "This is what we're talking about."

However, as you rightly observe, this would not be fun in itself, and therefore it would not be viable as a game if the intention was to attract non-pareconistas. Partly because economic activity is not fun, and partly because workers councils et al were designed to be fair, not fun.

So, to fill out the picture, I think the game would need to earnestly portray a world enjoying the full social benefits of universal non-domination (specifically, I'm thinking of shorter working hours, environmental sustainability, economic security, etc.). One might think back to the Eloi from H.G. Wells' Time Machine, who mostly sit around all day in idyllic comfort, waiting for the Morlocks to come eat them. In our case, the Morlocks would be replaced by Parecon, a slightly unpleasant cost to pay for harmony. Most of the time, player characters would amuse themselves with various forms of leisure, and then when resources start to run down, somebody calls a meeting of the various councils,and a rational amount of economic production takes place, distributed fairly.