Freemasons and the mormons have interesting cross-ties, too. Having had involvement within the LDS church many, many years ago, I found that its "inventors" (Joe Smith and friends) were all freemasons, pre-mormon. It is also quite interesting to note the similarities in each of their respective temple rituals.

Another tidbit: Mormons cannot join the Freemasons and Freemasons cannot join the Mormon church.

Curious are the Mormons, financially speaking. They are the richest church in the USA (not the Catholics as you might think), mainly for their property holdings.

Power does beget and beget and beget.

R

Funny you should mention the masons. Freemasonry keeps coming up everywhere I read. It seems to play a large part in the Bush/Harriman/Rockefeller history and the Skull and Bones Society at Yale. I have to admit that it's concerning me.

Victor,  off subject a bit, but consider the Masons and their history...then consider those within this secret organization...and then consider where we are today.  All conspiracy aside, there are people in families that go so far back (into the darker ages) in their respective power plays that, if we only stay interested in the out edges of "their" stories, we can stay busy for quite a long time. 

We are but specks on the plate and dust in the wind.

I would like to think that I am one in the "crowd downstairs" that is waiting for bush that Sean Penn referred to in his most recent contribution to us all.

R

An interesting story on the Aljazeera site hidden amongst top news. http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/57E17F90-F717-45AF-B56E-87235A4BD8B6.htm I have read on occasion for a couple of years now that Iran has been threatening to convert its currency base to the Euro rather than the Dollar. The US is paranoid about such an action on the part of a major oil producer as it could initiate a domino effect across Asia, which nervously holds many billions of weakening dollars on reserve. Such an action could seriously damage the almighty petro-dollar and lead to disastrous results for the US economy. So much is the US concerned about this that the powers that be would consider a war with Iran to destabilize its government and cause a regime change. Some months ago it was reported that the US was considering building up its aircraft carrier strike fleet off the coast of Iran in preparation for such an event. Iraq would be used as an excuse, but the real intent would be to send a clear message to Iran that they had better reconsider where they are interfering with America's TRUE interests.

This is truly disturbing and seems consistent with much of what I have read on occasion. Compare this with another link: http://www.corpwatch.org/ And an associated website: http://www.warprofiteers.com/article.php?list=type&type=176 War, the most profitable business ever designed. I am not a conspiracy theorist, but I have to say that I am coming more each day to see some of their points.

The people have spoken. The Republicans are out. The Dems are in. But just what did the people say when they did that? According to the Washington Post, the President says that

the fundamental question is, 'Will Republicans and Democrats be able to work with the administration to assure our military and the American people that we will position our military so that it is ready and able to stay engaged in a long war?'

And what do the Dem leadership say about all this? Again, according to the Washington Post -

Democrats pounced on Bush's comments. "I am glad he has realized the need for increasing the size of the armed forces . . . but this is where the Democrats have been for two years," said Rep. Rahm Emanuel (Ill.), chairman of the House Democratic Caucus. Kerry issued a statement calling Bush's move a "pragmatic step needed to deal with the warnings of a broken military," but he noted that he opposes increasing troops in Iraq. Even before news of Bush's interview, Rep. Ike Skelton (D-Mo.), incoming chairman of the House Armed Services Committee, told reporters that the military is "bleeding" and "we have to apply the tourniquet and strengthen the forces."

That's it, folks! That's what the people want. That's why they voted the Dems in and the Neos out. They don't want to get out of Iraq. They don't want to bring the boys home. They want a BIGGER military! They want an even bigger WAR budget! They don't give a damn about how many lives are lost or broken in the process. They don't care how much it costs. Hell, empty the Treasury! Get a loan from China! Whatever it takes! The people want the President and his military to hunker down for a long, long global war ...and WIN! The Oligarchy has spoken through their lapdogs, the Congressional leadership and the President. This will surely test the mettle of the American people, for if the people of the United States do not raise their voices over this insanity, then the US Constitution will become a worthless piece of paper and the United States of America, as it was originally conceived and fought for, will be gone forever in a cloud of national fear and paranoia inflamed by a rich and powerful and greedy few.

Don't apologize for information - good or bad. I am looking at this. I'll let you know what I think soon. But certainly, from what I already know about the Bush Dynasty, this would not be out of place. Thanks for the link. And by the way - evil goes back many generations indeed.

Please go to tarpley.net/bush2 and read the unauthorized biography of GB1. I only found it today and am up to chapter 6, and it is too much for me alone.

I e-mailed Paul and asked him to read it and tell me if some or all is true. I am hampered here as I only have the i-net for research.

This is truly making me ill. I thought that these people were venal, shallow, greedy and mean spirited, but if only a portion of this is true, they are evil back thru many generations.

 

You know it's always good to get a little confirmation of one's stand on things. That's one reason I like Znet. There are so many folks here who have seen and witnessed the things I wouldn't want to imagine my own country was involved in. So I no longer feel entirely crazy at believing the things I do. The point about Ecuador is a good one, and an excellent example of the Empire's economic and corrosive effects upon countries over time. Often we, as simple citizens, have no idea of what our society as a whole is doing to others in the world, and we are left wondering why the hell everyone hates us so much. Well, I'm here to tell you that Ecuador is a fine example of why. At such times I think to myself that this is all about me and my wants and desires to live the best life I can having the latest gadgets, a nice car, the best but least costly goods available, etc. During that time I accumulated such things, the thought never once occurred to me what the TRUE costs of my standard of living were upon the rest of the planet. It never occurred to me that this is a world of limited resources - that taking something into my hands was taking it out of someone else's. Within my frame of thought we all had access to an unlimited supply of goods and services. And as I helped our economy by buying goods, it in fact helped other economies by giving them more business and thus, raising their standards of living as well (at least that's what I thought!). And then I found out that not only were there only limited resources in the world, but that it was the chosen design of the G-8 countries to exploit the non-developed world as much as possible in order to keep furnishing me, their consumer-citizen more goods and cheaper prices to keep me buying and ever-increase their profits. I suddenly realized that I was in the 10% of the world population that owned 85% of the world's wealth. And that these poor smucks on the other end of the spectrum were handing over their lives, their economies, their political structures, their environment, their natural resources and their futures in order to keep me and my fellow countrymen living like kings in comparison. And to think that I was so fat and spoiled that I got pissed off when the price of gasoline went up a few pennies! It was then I realized that all my life I had been a part of evil. And it was then that I underwent a complete and revolutionary transformation in my life.

If you have occasion to buy those huge, fancy roses.....don´t.

They are very chemical dependent and a couse of major pollution in Ecuador and the other countries with highland valleys where these and other cut flowers are grown. They are also users of much water that will be even more scarce in the near future as the glaciers that feed the lakes that are the water supplies for the people in these mountain areas are gone below 16,000 feet and the higher ones are disappearing fast. 

I have read Perkins Hitman and was particularly intrested because I went back to Ecuador after 40 years and the second day told my son that it was obvious to me that the footprint of the US is very big........then I saw the embassy. It was an inviting place where the Otavalo Indians just walked in carrying their wonderful textiles, all the NASA wives met for coffee and Spanish lessons, and the people were at least friendly, not particularly helpful, you understand, it was well known if you needed help you went to the Brits or Canadians. Today the embassy is a fortress and I understand there is to be built a new embassy that really is a fortress.

As I drove around the country, I was saddened to see the destruction of a truly unique and wonderful country.....and I did not see the destruction in the North East part of the country where the oil companies are......way too dangerous, but the damage is terrible . Between the oil cos and mining cos almost all of the cloud forest is gone, and the rivers that become the Amazon and their surrounding rain forest are polluted probably past doing anything about. Quito has worst air quality than Mexico City, and the traffic is in pernmanant gridlock.....this in a city in a bowl at 9700 feet altitude.....nowhere for the pollution to go. 

I put the other books on my list. I go to Florida in Jan so will be able to pick up some, and my family has a list of about 50 that I want. I need to get some of these books on CD so I can listen to one and read one at the same time.......otherwise I will never get thru them. I am going to be intrested to see if I can still do this at 65. It was easy at 20 or even 40.  But that is what happens when one learns exactly what game is being played with ones self as participant. It is necessary to learn the rules and details of past games as quickly as possible. 

Going now to truthout to read article. I like that site, too.    

I would also highly recommend alongside Blum's Killing Hope the book Terror Inc - Tracing the Money Behind Global Terrorism by Loretta Napoleoni A real eye-opener. Also recommended for those interested in the strategy the USA has developed over the years to capture the economies of countries, read Confessions of an Economic Hitman by John Perkins, a personal account. And for some insights into the psychology and mass persuasion utilized by the culture of the elite upon the American people, read American Dream/Global Nightmare by Sardar and Davies. It explains how psyops have been used against the people of the USA for many years (certainly since the beginnings of movies, mass media and marketing theory) to develop a society that is malleable to the needs of the elite, and which will never rebel. And other well-documented accounts of the TRUE history of the United States - the one us junkyard dogs aren't allowed to see without unusual effort. Good reading, folks.

Truthout published this today: http://www.truthout.org/docs_2006/121506N.shtml I have always contended that the National Security Act (USA) and the Official Secrets Act (UK) are little more than weapons to be used against the truth, to hide the lies of Government, its political fumblings, and questionable acts on the part of government officials. They are in fact covers for serious crimes against the people and against humanity in general. The reason Government needs such laws is simply to protect those in power from prosecution and shame. Governments can no longer be trusted. They can no longer be considered our friends. They can no longer be trusted to protect their citizens and those of other countries from harm. They no longer represent the people. And those who rise to real power in Government do so because they have abandoned the ideals of democracy in favor of becoming prostitutes (whores) to money and influence.

I have been receiving Bill Blum´s newsletter since I first learned about him by reading Rogue State. He will send it to you free.

Buy the book....it is worth reading and keeping for reference.  

This from The Independent newspaper in London, Dec 15, 2006, article by Colin Brown and Andy McSmith titled ¨Diplomat´s suppressed document lays bare the lies behind Iraq war¨....

Carne Ross, Brit´s key negotiator at the U N.......

 

revealed it was a commonly held view among British officials dealing with Iraq that any threat by Saddam Hussein had been "effectively contained".

He also reveals that British officials warned US diplomats that bringing down the Iraqi dictator would lead to the chaos the world has since witnessed. "I remember on several occasions the UK team stating this view in terms during our discussions with the US (who agreed)," he said.

"At the same time, we would frequently argue when the US raised the subject, that 'regime change' was inadvisable, primarily on the grounds that Iraq would collapse into chaos

Just FYI, SGTR, WE ARE NOT THE ONLY PEOPLE INVOLVED. SO THIS TISSUE OF LIES HAS BEEN EXAMINED FROM LOTS OF SIDES. 

The closer I get to my (actual) retirement, the more cynical and in full agreement I am with you. I follow very closely the financial and the environmental...and, sadly, all thumbs are pointing down at this time. My optimism, however, is lifted daily as I commute on a bicycle to work and that small "contribution" makes me dream dreams of....???

Sometimes, there is hope and then reality sets in.

 

I thought what you wrote and then ....there it was!. ...very, very well done.

A great summation of all that you said (and more) is also available from William Blum at the following link:

http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/Blum/US_Interventions_WBlumZ.html

SGTR, if you have the time, read it. If you learn something, reply.

 

 

So very true. To paraphrase Jack Nicholson, most of us can't take the truth. We are, as a society, esp in the USA, in deep denial. Much of this world's current ills comes down to our country's corporate greed- corporate greed that because of the political structure of the US is able to flourish in a lawful manner, corrupting people and governments and environments everywhere it touches. We are indeed on a course of self destruction. But short of a mass armed revolution, there is not likely a fix in sight. Of course, that won't happen anyway because then the Super Bowl might have to be called off. And we really can't have that, can we?... ;-)

Truth hides behind fear, greed, and prejudice and for that reason truth is impossible for most people to identify.  

Corruption of governments world wide will be our collective undoing. As governments ignore that "truth" we get ever closer to a "Global Meltdown" that will effect every living creature.

Socially -Financially - Environmentally - all of humanity is on a course of self destruction.

We have no leaders who are telling the "Truth". The public can't tell the difference anyway. 

If you were truly concerned about State-sponsored terrorism, you would join us on this site against the greatest supporter of state terrorism in history - the TRUE Regime of Terror - the USA. If you feel strongly about the immorality of states who sponsor terrorism in all its ugly forms, you need look any further than your own shores. The Dark Empire has financed, schooled, and otherwise directly supported terrorist organisations from Mexico, Central and South America, Asia, Africa and the Middle East for many years years. It was the USA who was responsible for the indoctrination and support of those who formed Al Qaeda in the first place, spreading its support through the offices of the notorious Pakistani Security Agency. It was the Dark One who through its CIA efforts encouraged the development of radical jihadism among the rebels of Afghanistan (one of the recipients of which was bin Laden and his ilk). It was the USA who even created a state terrorist training center (The infamous School of the Americas) whose responsibility it was to train leaders and potential leaders of Central and South America in the fine arts of torture, psychological warfare, political destabilization, and many other dark arts which applied by the death squads it taught these leaders how to employ, left a trail of death and tears across an entire hemisphere until it was finally closed because of the political uproar ensuing from its existence. Pinochet was one of its fiercest supporters. The USA has been responsible for several illegal invasions and for countless attempts at political destabilization in countries who were suspected of not towing its economic policies. Most of them simply had the audacity to want to deliver their people out of poverty and abuse caused in the first place by American "free market" oppression in their countries. The USA openly and unapologetically supported the government of Indonesia in its slaughter of the citizens of East Timor over the last few decades in the name of "freedom". It was the USA who politically destabilized Iran's duly elected democratic government and installed the brutal Shah of Iran, whose oppressiveness led his overthrow by the radical Islamists who now govern Iran with an iron fist. The USA supports the most brutal and oppressive regime in the Middle East - Saudi Arabia, whose money goes to support terrorist operations throughout the world, including the participants of the 9/11 terrorist act. The Bush family has long and deep friendly ties with the Saudi rulers and even transported bin Laden's family out of the country after 9/11 even when no other flights were allowed in the air. The US's intent in Iraq, and the rest of the Middle East, has been nothing more than the blatant attempt to grab control of oil. No one of any intelligence, even in the Bush Administration, is any longer claiming that Hussein was in league with Al Qaeda - indeed, there is ample evidence that Hussein was violently opposed to Al Qaeda on both religious and political grounds. You couldn't possibly find two more divergent philosophies. And it's really strange how Hussein was supported so strongly during the 80s when he fought Iran. He was our golden boy of the Middle East - he could do no wrong. And those weapons of mass destruction - we sold them to him in the first place - chemicals, the weaponry, the whole lot. Don't you find that even a little interesting? The greed for oil and money is behind all this. Always has been. Always will be. Those who are driving it are using poor misguided people such as yourself to justify our sons and daughters dying for the sake of oil, not ridding the world of weapons of mass destruction - money, not winning wars on terror - corporate greed, not installing democracy. Wake up! Smell the oil! You are being used by these criminals such as Bush and Cheney who are little more than treasonous filth, who are not concerned to protect our freedoms but to take them away, who are not so much interested in wars on terror as they are in a war against us. They use patriotism and fear as weapons against you. You are nothing to these people. They have nothing in common with you. They don't think like you. They don't socialize with the likes of you. You and we are little more than the cattle of the field to them, to be used as fodder for whatever acts of thievery next comes to their minds. They simply wrap it in patriotic colors, give you a good dose of fear, make you feel guilty and unpatriotic for not following them, and you are theirs. And it's obvious to me that you truly are ...theirs.

Let's see: 700,000 Iraqi dead; closing in on 3,000 GIs (and there's the 20,000 GIs injured, many quite terribly); complete discrediting (by countless intelligence experts) of cooked Cheney administration "intelligence" ("fixed in advance of the policy" to quote British intelligence in Downing Street Memo)allegeing WMD and al Qaeda connections, a massive shift in U.S. public opinion; a mid-term election mandate against the war; exposure of a transparent oil invasion, deeply racist, monumentally murderous, and openly imperialist, which has outlived the period of time covered by U.S. involvement in WWII; but of course there's still a dedicated cadre around still --- after everything--- actually willing to voice their support for the Cheney-Bush line of late 02. It reminds me of the true believer CPers who continued to defend Uncle Joe Stalin after the 1956 Kruschev revelations.

Femalecontent to you, Bud!

Or did you mean malcontent as in discontent with a particular state of affairs? You are certainly correct there, and I did not read anything at your link that justified a million lives and one country destroyed.

Follow the link, read and learn, but that may be asking too  much of you malecontents. 

 

http://www.regimeofterror.com/

Here is an interesting link (hope it works) to an essay on Dylan's latest album "Modern Times" (mainly blues interestingly enough though it contains a non-blues number titled "Workingman's Blues")  The author thinks  Dylan's left instincts are now surfacing a bit more in his songwriting since the mid-late 90s.

GGggrrrrrrr......

Paul, wavelength indeed! We are in tune, my brother! I like to think that Dylan has had considerable & subtle influence in my life.  This Masters song, 1962, is a great example.  You're right, too..No squeamish politeness blowing in the wind of those lyrics. I think he was too nice. And there are so many more.  Having covertly participated in the southeastern regions of asia in the sixties (with the US Army Special Forces) I am constantly reminded of those MONSTERS.  I have not, however, relented in my pursuits of humanity since those times, but I do have a bitter pill approach to things.  I have been dubbed an angry man.  Thank you very much.  I try to channel it, though, with productive effort.  Sometimes that works!

Hang tough! Things could get worse and we need the experience.

R

 

PIECE OF S__T?

 

Paul, and pinochet did not deserve to die of old age..

Woof...

Here's something for "on the same wavelength" department. Take a look at Ron's comment above and then at this comment (I'm about to pase it in in italics, quoting the same section of the Dylan lyric) below, which I tried to post yesterday but had to abandon because of some Internet connectivity issues:

 Speaking of death, worldy crimes, and candidates for an eternal afterlife in extreme heat, I find it appropriate that the U.S.-supported fascist Chilean dicator (an open American-sponsored butcher of leftists) and "free market" enthusiast A. Pinochet died in the same season and year that witnessed the passing of leading U.S. "free market" ideologue Milton Friedman (MF). Hard right statist Pinochet's embrace of MF's supposeldy libertarian (in fact deeply authoritarian) doctrines was unsurprising to those of us who bothered to read (seriously read....not just poked through some Marx Reader in a sociology class) the allegedly discredited Karl Marx. Marx knew that Pinochet and Friedman's beloved "market" rule was at core the "dictatorship of the bourgeoisie" and that capitalist society owed its genesis and preservation to (among other things) remarkable state violence. Dylan has some remarkable lines; he's a living Shakespeare and a remarkable chord- and tune-smith at one and the same time. I don't personally fault him much for taking an apolitical stance ("I used to care, but things have changed" as he says in one later tune). It's not my stance but, well... and I've seen him make a point of playing the Masters of War song on three separate post-9/11 occasions and leading up to Operation Iraqi Liberation (O.I.L.) If I recall the last stanza of that song right, it goes like this: "I hope that you die/and your death will come soon/I'll follow your casket/on a pale afternoon/I'll watch while you're lowered/down to your deathbed/I'll stand over your body/until I'm sure that you are dead." No squeamish politeness blowing in the wind of those lyrics. Some time ago since 9/11 a high school group (I think) got reported to the Department of Homeland Security for playing and singing this tune. I don't know if the FBI has decided to investigate Bobby D''s possible status as an enemy combatant. Things actually reached that point

We are trained to kill on command, to guard what's theirs and to do what we wish between, as long as it does not entail rebellion and theft of their gold. Now am I a cynic, or what????

Cyrano, I think there are a LOT of people who read ZNET who do not post. As for paying, I am already a Znet Sustainer, so hopefully, I won't be asked to pay more. If I am asked, however....not sure.

Just practicing the serious paranoia I think is going to be a much needed survival skill in our future.

Victor, I dont expect you to leave, I expect you to get pissed a bit. although I am to busy to work on znet, i understand that designing interactive website often comes with bugs.. ( Victor , its funny, but I recently quit a job. and I discovered one of my canadian co-worker participate to activism and is a reader of znet...he said he does not post any comments. I wonder how many people just come here to read the blogs...? ) znet does a good job spreading information and opinion, znet rules.

What kind of changes would cause me to leave? I don't always keep up with these things... ;-)

mariam , I only agreed to your statement .. like I said, i do like reading your comments.. cheers

My favorite (vindictive) part of Dylan's song is:

And I hope that you die and your death will come soon



I'll follow your casket through the pale afternoon



And I'll watch while you're lowered into your death bed



Then I'll stand over your grave till I'm sure that you're



dead 

IMHO, these types don't die off fast enough. In certain cases, however, it becomes worthy of a Street party (no pun intended, Paul). Pinochet proved that point recently by dying...none to soon.

I am sure the Bush family breathed a sigh of relief at his passing, what with the implications in legal proceedings that could put them in jeopardy.

An excellent article of about the subject is at Truthout's website:

http://www.truthout.org/docs_2006/121206D.shtml

Maybe Kissinger should take serious note.

R

Cyrano. I have no idea who you are or what you are threatening, but the quote you cited was mine and had nothing to do with any one else.

AND,I REPEAT, I WISH THE WAR FEEDERS TO THE DEPTHS OF HELL, IF THERE IS SUCH A PLACE, FOR ETERNITY.

 

Hi Victor , mariam IF THERE IS INDEED A GOD, MAY HE DAMN THEM TO EVERLASTING HELL.......and I am not a religious person, but in this case, I can make an exception ( we make an exception..)) hey Victor and Mariam, Znet will go under changes soon. I hope you will select to saty.. I appreciates your comments.

I have never been in the Army and nowhere near a war. But I knew what our children were being taught because I knew it takes extreme measures to take the local altar boy and turn him into a monster that his officers and fellow soldiers were afraid of. That is the story that finally terrified my neighbor in Houston, Texas during the worst years of Vietnam. He was in a residency for psychiatry and working in the veteran´s hospital. I served as the psychiatrist´s  sounding board for a while as he was having some adjustment problems. This was no 25 year old but a mature man who had been a practicing doctor for 15 years. He was terrified because he got the worst cases but we were turning hundreds of thousands of boys who had the same training and had been in the same situations of killing as the reason to get up in the morning. out into the general population with little help, as the care and feeding of the human leftovers of war is of little concern to the feeders on war that make up the top one percent of the population....in their $8500.00 dresses.

IF THERE IS INDEED A GOD, MAY HE DAMN THEM TO EVERLASTING HELL.......and I am not a religious person, but in this case, I can make an exception  

Are there any statistics about the increased number of attacks and other acts of mayhem by these returned vets? I remember an increase of attacks on women and random shootings.

 

Read the newspaper in Fayetteville, North Carolina and you will read daily articles about violence toward wives, girlfriends, and children.

WE, AS A SOCIETY, PAY AN UNDISCUSSED PRICE FOR THE WARS NEEDED BY THE RICH.  

No one can say it like Bob Dylan. I was in the Marine Corps for a time in the 60s. Basic training there is likely much the same as it is today. We were not taught motherhood and apple pie - in fact, we were discouraged to think about such things. We were taught to kill. To kill with a rifle. To kill with a bayonet. Tho kill with our hands. Always to kill. No mercy. No thought for mother. Only kill. We were this country's killing machines. And we were proud of it. And Nam brought the worst (and the best) out in everyone. I suppose it's always been that way to some extent. But someone tell me something, please. What must we be doing to 19 y.o.s teaching them to kill, encouraging them to kill, decorating them for killing? And even more important...why do we do that? Why? There was a time when a people's leaders were required to actually lead their troops into battle. Those leaders knew then the cost. They knew what it truly meant to have a weapon pointed at you. They knew how it felt to watch someone's life-blood spill uselessly into the soil. They knew how it felt to take another person's life - the cost to humanity, to his wife, his children, his family. They knew the terrible cost. They knew the real costs of real war. And many of them died. Only leaders like that should be entrusted with warfare. Only leaders who have known the horrors and senselessness and noise and confusion and deep, deep, paralyzing fear of dying or being hideously wounded should be allowed to lead a country into war. Today many of our leaders, certainly the President, the Vice-President and even many of our military leaders have never truly known war, nor have their children of age. No, they send OUR children to war. They train OUR children to kill. They honour our children when they kill, or when killed. But when they return home with medals and tortured souls and twisted minds and crippled bodies, they look at them with hollow looks of disdain and pity and leave them like crippled animals among the dredges of society. Or they imprison them ignominiously and treat them like rabid dogs. One sure truth I have learned over the course of my life - there is no honour in war - none. Our sons and our daughters die only for the evil of men.