hello, zionism is bad news..

linking Iran to 9/11... What are jews doing in Iran ? BBC give a biased opinion. I regardless publish the link..

Cyrano, the point is that Israel left Gaza. No more occupation there so this accusation does not hold water. Similar plans were set for a large portion of the settlements in the West Bank. Israel also left Lebanon. They also withdrew from the Sinai in peace with Egypt and some Jordanian lands in peace with Jordan. All these lands were captured in defensive wars started by the the Arab nations. There is no support for Hamas precisely becuase even when the occupation of Gaza was FINISHED, Hamas still decided to fire rockets at Israeli civilians, in addition to frequently calling for the end of ALL of Israel. Israel has a long track record of seeking peace by withdrawing from land. Only when the other side decides that it is willing to accept Israel, then peace can hold. Israel does not practice state-terrorism as it does not DELIBERATELY target civilians. If it chose to do so, many 10,000s of thousands would be dead, right? In fact, according to the Palestinians themselves, only 4,379 have been killed in 6 YEARS, or 60 per month, and many of these of course are armed militants and terrorists (how many depends on the source, but the total figure is agreed upon). About 3,000 a month alone in Iraq are being killed, muslim vs. muslim. The Palestinians killed are nearly all if not all unfortunate victims of Israeli responses to Palestinian terrorism and Qassam attacks. Hamas chooses to fire Qassams from civilians locations (Beit Hanoun is one), and Israel has to respond against these attacks (what country in the world would accept rocket attacks against its civilians, especially after withdrawing from that territory?). Yes, terrible tragedies can occur, as in any war. The Israelis apologize and go through major internal debates on the civilian deaths, contrated to the palestinians, who generally rejoice at all Israeli deaths, military or civilians. The "state terrorism" cannard is simply a propaganda term that really has no basis in truth.

Anonymous wrote .. Why should Europe and the US provide aid for a government that supports terrorism and denies Israel's right to exist? Why? Because Israel is only an occupation army and practice state-terrorism against civilian population of Palestine.

I'm saying that if Hamas stopped shooting Qassams, which started AFTER Israel left Gaza completely, and stopped calling for the destruction of Israel, maybe their lives would improve. Why should Europe and the US provide aid for a government that supports terrorism and denies Israel's right to exist? Why?

If Hezbollah did not start the war by firing Katyushas at Israeli towns (and capturing 2 soldiers), there would have been no war in Lebanon. The US, Europe, UN, Saudi Arabia (let me know if you need these quotes) and most know this.

 

Not building a society that was ready to live in peace. This invited Israeli responses, which tragically, hurt the population severely. No other nation or society in the world would tolerate missles being shot at their towns. are you saying lebanese and palestinian should'nt tolerate a zionist state ? http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20061206/ap_on_re_mi_ea/israel_palestinians

Gideon Levy is known to be well out of the mainstream in Israel, with his articles (like most articles) generally ignoring Palestinian and other arab terrorist acts. What it does show is the true freedom of speech and debate the Israel goes through and accepts unlike ANY OTHER arab nation in the world. It is clear that Israel makes mistakes. I am glad you admit to palestnian war crimes, because most Israel criticizers never acknowledge this. The point in Gaza is that Israel left Gaza one year ago, handed over the crossing to Egypt to Palestinian hands (don't tell me they can't get food accross, thet seem to have no trouble bringing in arms and cash through). The next event was Qassam rockets from Hamas and its supporters, a clear war crime. Not building a society that was ready to live in peace. This invited Israeli responses, which tragically, hurt the population severely. No other nation or society in the world would tolerate missles being shot at their towns. You can bet if the Russians were being attacked by Qassams, Gaza would be flattened (see Chechnya). Israel has certainly killed innocents, but not as a deliberate target. If Israel was intentionally targetting civilians, you would see 10,000-100,000 dead. Remember when the Palestinians flooded a home with civilians after Israel called that they would destroy the house? Why did they do this if they KNOW Israel targets civilians? BECAUSE THEY DON'T and the house was saved.

I agree, it is the ZIonists who are really in control here, contrary to world opinion, managing the armies in both Iraq and Israel, causing wars worldwide and seeking to control much of muslim lands. Hezbollah needs to understand this and build up an arsenal to even better target Israeli cities and civilians. Hezbollah really needs to take over Lebanon, whatever the cost, to act as the frontline in the war against the zionists. The 5 million Jews in Israel, and their hordes of wealthy supporters overseas, are really seeking to control the world, starting by taking over Palestinian lands. Right on!!

The problem with hezbollah is that this organization is too moderate in comparison to Israel and zionist in general.

Friends:

In our day (a point already true for the past 10 to 15 years), no propaganda operation can afford to neglect the power of the Internet. And no sophisticated psychological operation would. (By which I mean to say the kind of operation aimed at changing how people think and feel about an event or person or other kind of entity, whether positively or negatively, and which the professional psych-ops groups lurking in the various ministries of information around the world, not to mention among the much more vast body of public-relations firms, can undertake at the drop of a dime.)

In terms of mobilizing a highly-committed core of true believers to act on a given topic, with a given objective, at a given time, or simply in terms of insinuating one's message via the news media into the public realm, if you don't play the Internet, in effect you are silencing yourself.

Now.  The question I'd ask is whether these little anonymous hit-and-run comments (e.g., "How the...," 2006-11-28 13:08; "No QASSAMS No Israeli response SIMPLE!!!" 2006-12-01 11:36; "We all know Hezbollah Launched the War with Crimes," 2006-12-02 20:27) were the product of something like the Give Israel Your United Support (GIYUS.org) campaign, a web-based advocacy campaign on behalf of its namesake--the "army of cyber soldiers" mentioned by the London Times (below)? 

See below, where I'll reproduce some more material about this pro-Israel propaganda campaign.

"Behind the Headlines," Israel Ministry of Foreign Affairs
"FM Livni to Int'l Institute for Strategic Studies: The world faces conflicts over values, not territories," Tzipi Livni, Israel Ministry of Foreign Affairs, November 21, 2006
Give Israel Your United Support (GIYUS.org)
- GIYUS - Blog"Israel backed by army of cyber-soldiers," Yonit Farago, The Times, July 28, 2006  
"Israel's new PR focus: Internet 'talkbacks'," Herb Keinon, Jerusalem Post, September 1, 2006
"Israel's stock rises in US Europe despite war," Herb Keinon, Jerusalem Post, September 19, 2006
"Don't mention the war: Israel seeks image makeover," Dan Williams, Reuters, October 26, 2006 (as posted to the Global Exchange website)
"Photos of despair trump sound bites," Tovah Lazaroff, Jerusalem Post, November 14, 2006
"Israel ups the stakes in the propaganda war," Stewart Purvis, The Guardian, November 20, 2006  

David Peterson
Chicago, USA

 

 

What the world really knows, from the UN and nearly all countries, is that Hezbollah launched an unprovoked attack on Israel by lauunching dozens of Qassams on civilians, simultaneously kidnapping soldiers. The Qassam attack is a war crime under any definition. No one KNOWS that Israel planned an attack. Did Israel have a battle plan in the event of a Lebanon war? Of course, stupid not to when Hezbollah built an arsenal of 1000s of missles. The propaganda here is always blaming Israel. Israel is always at fault right? Hezbollah starts a war? No, somehow we twist it that Israel started it. Only Israel's enemies really believe this. Even Saudi Arabia and other arab nations blamed Hezbollah for starting the war (need quotes and articles, I will show you). Only the most insular Israel haters believe Israel is at fault for starting this tragic conflict. The sad propaganda is giving the Palestinians this idea that Israel will go away and the Palestinians can take over. If this sterile ropaganda stopped, Palestinians would be living in peace in their own country decades ago.

Did a tragedy occur? Sure. Answer these questions before the blame only Israel all the time procedure continues:

1. Israel left Gaza last August. The next act of violence was a Qassam rocket, a War Crime (as it deliberately targets only civilians, which is never acceptable under any circumstance) from Gaza into Israel. Why was this rocket fired? Why didn't the Palestinians prove to the world that they intend to peacefully coexist?

2. Why is Hamas (and others) firing Qassams from civilians parts of Gaza? This is also a war crime. In fact, Hamas sent human shields to a house after Israel called that it was going to destroy the house (as it was used to house Qassams). This is also a war crime. Ironically, the Palestinians knew that Israel is not as barbaric as the accused by the world as they KNOW that Israel DOES NOT deliberately seek to kill civilians. They knew this tactic WOULD STOP Israel from bombing the house. Think what Hamas would do if the situations were reversed (I'll tell you: a deliberate slaughter of Jews) .

3. Why did Hamas break the recent cease fire? 14 Qassams since the cease fire went into effect. Israel has done NOTHING since the cease fire date. Why this continued war crime, when Hamas AGREED to a cease fire?

 

Simple answer: Hamas has no intention of EVER living with Israel in peaceful coexistence.

How the hell are any of you to be taken seriously when you cite such openly and blatantly biased sources such as Electronic Infitada and Ward Churchill? 

Jesus, talk about ingesting propoganda.  There is no pretense of being objective.  Yup, it's politics as usual with the lefties.

Friends:

In our day (a point true for the past decade, if not longer), no propaganda operation can afford to neglect the power of the Internet.  And no sophisticated psychological operation would. (By which I mean to say the kind of operation aimed at changing how people think and feel about an event or person or other kind of entity, whether positively or negatively, and which the professional psych-ops groups in various ministries of information around the world, not to mention among the much more vast body of public-relations firms, can undertake at the drop of a dime).

In terms of mobilizing a highly-committed core of true believers to act on a given topic, with a given objective, at a given time (the old barking on command thing), or simply in terms of insinuating one's message into the public realm, in the hopes of winning by sheer repetition, if you don't play the Internet, in effect you are silencing yourself.

And this is equally true, whether the goal is to promote favorable perceptions of your side, or simply to smear the other's.

For several news media clippings on one such psychological operation, that is, what the Israeli Government is calling its "Give Israel Your United Support" campaign, see below.

"Behind the Headlines," Israel Ministry of Foreign Affairs
"FM Livni to Int'l Institute for Strategic Studies: The world faces conflicts over values, not territories," Tzipi Livni, Israel Ministry of Foreign Affairs, November 21, 2006
Give Israel Your United Support (GIYUS.org)
- GIYUS - Blog

"Israel backed by army of cyber-soldiers," Yonit Farago, The Times, July 28, 2006
"Israel's new PR focus: Internet 'talkbacks'," Herb Keinon, Jerusalem Post, September 1, 2006
"Israel's stock rises in US Europe despite war," Herb Keinon, Jerusalem Post, September 19, 2006
"Don't mention the war: Israel seeks image makeover," Dan Williams, Reuters, October 26, 2006 (as posted to the Global Exchange website)
"Photos of despair trump sound bites," Tovah Lazaroff, Jerusalem Post, November 14, 2006
"Israel ups the stakes in the propaganda war," Stewart Purvis, The Guardian, November 20, 2006

 

David Peterson
Chicago, USA

Kelvin:

Business as usual indeed.  Not surprisingly, the tactic employed by the Israeli spokesperson that you describe above ("Beit Hanoun and Israeli perception") works like a charm.    

Electronic Intifada is an outstanding resource.  They're reporting "more than 400" Palestinians killed in the Gaza alone since June. Presumably since June 1.  Though the Israelis undertook a major escalation on June 28 called Operation Summer Rain, under the transparent pretext that they were angered over the abduction of Cpl. Gilad Shalit three days before from an IDF base at Kerem Shalom, just south of the Gaza.--In light of this, I find it interesting that the IDF called its most recent offensive in the Gaza Operation Autumn Clouds (Wednesday 01/11/2006 08:56). 

As you may have noticed mentioned in one of the many UN-weblinked documents I provided above, on November 15, the new and (allegedly) improved UN Human Rights Council adopted a measure that condemned the IDF's actions in the Gaza (already some five months long), calling for immediate protection of Palestinian civilians in the Occupied Territories, and the formation of a fact-finding mission to Beit Hanoun, to study the November 8 atrocity.  (See "3rd Special Session on Israeli Military Incursions in Occupied Palestinian Territory," November 15.)

The vote on the relevant resolution went as follows ("Human Rights Council Decides To Urgently Dispatch A High-Level Fact-Finding Mission to Beit Hanoun," November 15):

- In Favor: 32 (Algeria, Argentina, Azerbaijan, Bahrain, Bangladesh, Brazil, China, Cuba, Djibouti, Ecuador, Gabon, Ghana, India, Indonesia, Jordan, Malaysia, Mali, Mauritius, Mexico, Morocco, Nigeria, Pakistan, Peru, Philippines, Russian Federation, Saudi Arabia, Senegal, South Africa, Sri Lanka, Tunisia, Uruguay, and Zambia)
- Against: 8 (Canada, Czech Republic, Finland, Germany, Netherlands, Poland, Romania, and United Kingdom)
- Abstentions: 6 (France, Guatemala, Japan, Republic of Korea, Switzerland, and Ukraine)

The American Ambassador to the UN Offices in Geneva, Warren W. Tichenor, delivered the following statement (November 15):

On November 8, Israeli artillery shells were fired into a residential area of Beit Hanoun, killing 17 civilians. The injuries and loss of life, and especially the deaths of a number of young children, were tragic. That day, President Bush conveyed deepest condolences on behalf of the United States. The President called on all parties to act with care so as to avoid any harm to innocent civilians. We have seen the Israeli government's apology and understand an investigation has begun. We hope it will be completed quickly and that appropriate steps be taken to avoid a repetition of this tragic incident.

We now find ourselves for the third time in the short life of the Human Rights Council meeting in special session, the second one focused on addressing the military actions in the West Bank and Gaza. This Council should not address particular military actions taken during a period of armed conflict that are clearly governed by the law of war. It is indeed unfortunate that the Council is using its limited resources to discuss subjects not squarely within its mandate when there are pressing concerns that fall explicitly within its purview. Why is the Council loath to address important human rights situations elsewhere, such as Sudan?

In the text before us, rather than attempting honestly to shed light on all the facts contributing to the violence in Gaza, the resolution instead is a blatant effort to exploit the tragic incident in Beit Hanoun to advance an unbalanced view of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict.

In the wake of the Beit Hanoun attacks, Hamas' leadership declared that the truce with Israel was over and the armed struggle could resume; and Hamas' military wing called on Muslims worldwide to strike American targets and interests. We strongly reject such calls. More terror, whether directed at Israel or the United States or elsewhere, is not the solution nor will it enable the Palestinian people to achieve their aspirations. It is the responsibility of the Hamas-led PA government to prevent terror, take the necessary steps to stop attacks such as occurred this morning in Sderot, and dismantle terrorist infrastructure. Progress towards peace needs a Palestinian government that disavows terror and violence and accepts the principles outlined by the Quartet.

As Secretary Rice has noted, "It is extremely important that every party act responsibly so that the possibility of peace will be preserved." The resolution being considered by the Council today includes an unsubstantiated determination that Israel violated international law through military incursions, a determination that this body has neither the mandate nor information to make. It also misrepresents events on the ground to provide a one-sided picture of the complex and difficult reality of the situation in Gaza.

The United States remains committed to the Road-map, an agreement reached by the parties and endorsed by the international community for achieving a real and lasting peace between Palestinians and Israelis. We seek to realize the vision of two states: Israel and Palestine, living side by side, in peace and security. Just as both sides must have the political will and determination to reach that goal, the international community, including the Human Rights Council, must do more to advance that aim. 

Still more business as usual. 

 

David Peterson
Chicago, USA