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Conspiracies vs. Concentrations of Wealth & Power

By Noam Chomsky at Mar 01, 2005

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There are careful studies (Kolko, Barnet, others) that provide details about what is pretty obvious on the surface: the executive is largely staffed by representatives of private power concentrations, law firms that cater to their interests, outsiders who gain a role because of their willingness to serve those interests (the Kissinger types). Congress is somewhat more differentiated, but not a great deal. The average Senator, on leaving office, is unlikely to return to work as a truck driver, secretary, etc. More likely to a law firm, business, or other sector that draws from the higher levels of concentration of wealth and power. We don't have the kind of political system in which mass popular organizations can elect their own representatives, like Brazil (or Haiti, to take an important case, which quickly led to a military coup). Funding of electoral campaigns has been extensively studied. The major work is by Thomas Ferguson (see, e.g., his Golden Rule), more generally, his "investment theory of politics" which holds, and is empirically well supported, that political choices are pretty well predicted by the way investors coalesce to invest in controlling the state. The information system consists overwhelmingly of corporations that share the same values and commitments: corporate media, PR system, etc. It's been close to a truism for a long time that as long as there is an enormous concentration of private power, unaccountable to the public, politics will be hardly more than the shadow cast by business over society, as America's leading social philosopher, John Dewey, put it long ago. In the absence of popular democratic structures -- unions, functioning political parties, etc.) -- how could it be otherwise. There are no "conspiracies," and it has nothing to do with "brutal men." True, individuals influence decisions, but within a very narrow framework of choices... And that framework very largely derives from the concentration of domestic power, not surprisingly. That does leave a range. Thus the people around Bush happen to be committed to an unusual extent to serving very narrow concentrations of wealth and power and transferring costs to the great majority of the population and to future generations. Looking at who they are, and where they come from, it's not hard to understand their role at the extreme of a pretty narrow spectrum.

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Re: Conspiracies vs. Concentrations of Wealth & Power

By Dkraff, Davek at May 15, 2005 12:39 PM
Regarding concentrations of wealth and power, Mr. Chomsky's writing raises big questions. This should not, however, be taken as an end in itself. In return for one author's willingness to raise concerns, hopefully another will continue on with some possible answers to the implicit questions. We owe great gratitude to Mr. Chomsky for all his analysis and hard work, but he is only one person -- and one person can't do it all alone. Just as Mr. Chomsky constantly does his part, we all have to do ours if anything is to change. Any ideas? Go on and make things happen! Power to the people.

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Re: Conspiracies vs. Concentrations of Wealth & Power

By Xihatemegux, Nohope at May 05, 2005 19:39 PM
"Wow! What is - is because of human nature. If man were different history would be "what ought to be". It is not as higher thinking eggs heads wish it were because people are animals. We are born we live we die. All else in between is human nature. All history stands as proof - all men are selfish self-serving self promoting self centered animals - hell bent on survival no matter who else must suffer and die. We deny reality to live in some intellectual nervana so that we can ignore our own nature - our only goal is self preservation. However you want to cut it that a fact of human nature - of all nature." The Brighter Side of Human Nature: Altruism and Empathy in Everyday Life by Alfie Kohn, contradicts this assumption. http://www.alfiekohn.org/books/bs.htm History does not say anything about human nature, History says something about the type of events and human interactions which historians find significant. Invariable they are the ones that cause the greatest human agony. To base your assumption of human nature on what historians bother to recorded is as idiotic as basing ones assumption of the stability of the earths crust on what Historians bother to record. Needless to say earthquakes are not the norm, nor are floods, hurricanes tornados, and other natural catastrophes that befall humanity. Yet they are what history records. A pleasant sunny day is as likely to make the history books as an amicable family dinner.

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Re: Conspiracies vs. Concentrations of Wealth & Power

By Allen, Robert at Apr 14, 2005 06:12 AM
Sorry Big John- I gotta have at him. Roger the silly little man- 200k, if you have a family to support, is not a princely sum. The average CEO earns far more than that. But, nevermind, whatever the good Prof. makes, he earns every penny of it, unlike the bloodsucking CEOs you defend. Your ad hominens ony reveal your ignorance.

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Re: Conspiracies vs. Concentrations of Wealth & Power

By The, Roger at Apr 14, 2005 05:07 AM
"He makes a decent living, I'm sure" No. He makes a very wealthy living. "(And you don't know WHAT he makes, you ignorant bastard.)" Do I know EXACTLY what he makes? No, but I have a pretty good idea. The average New England professor with a PHd makes 115,000 a year. That alone puts him in the top 5%, so he actually makes more than I thought he did. Also, this is the rate for the AVERAGE New England Prof with a Phd, Chomsky teaches at MIT, again an elite school and has been there for 40 years, he's famous, there's no way he's making the "average" salary. Add in his NY Times bestselling books, his CD's, tapes, speaking tours...this guy is making well over 200K per year, that's bare minimum. "Workers know that he is speaking the truth to power." Noam Chomsky's lifestyle is far closer to those CEOs than to any worker.

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Re: Conspiracies vs. Concentrations of Wealth & Power

By Allen, Robert at Apr 09, 2005 09:01 AM
Roger the anti-intellectual, Again, you can't refute his arguments so you resort to making spurious claims about his lifestyle. He makes a decent living, I'm sure- but not by exploiting workers, like the folks you defend. It's ludicrous to lump a hardworking professor in with bloodsucking CEOs and their overpaid lackies. (And you don't know WHAT he makes, you ignorant bastard.) Marx himself did not have a problem with wealth per se, only the ill-gotten gains of exploitation. The elites are those who would perpetuate exploitation as a means of accumulating wealth, a practice the good Prof. has vigorously attacked. "Class warfare," if that ain't the moron calling the fool stupid. The only Americans who are sick and tired of Chomsky's message are greedy pricks like you. Workers know that he is speaking the truth to power.

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Re: Conspiracies vs. Concentrations of Wealth & Power

By The, Roger at Apr 09, 2005 07:13 AM
"You, on the other hand, are merely a punk making up for the inability to reason by engaging in smear tactics." It's hardly a "smear" tactic. You know, it's funny..for someone as critical as Noam Chomsky is on just about everyone and everything that doesn't agree with his ultra left-wing, quasi-Marxist philosophy, he and his supporters have an awful hard time taking a little criticism. When someone talks about "elites", "concentrations of wealth", etc as much as Chomsky does, it's only natural that the shoe be put on the other foot. A "moral truism" as Chomsky might have put it if we were talking about someone Chomsky dislikes. I know that I and a lot of other Americans are sick and tired of these class warfare games played by either millionaires or very wealthy people like John Kerry, Ted Kennedy, Michael Moore, Gore Vidal, the Hollywood lefties, and the intellectual celebrities like Noam Chomsky.

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Re: Conspiracies vs. Concentrations of Wealth & Power

By The, Roger at Apr 09, 2005 06:50 AM
"Not that it matters for logical purposes, but Donald Trump is wealthy; Prof. Chomsky is a humble scholar." Noam Chomsky is a tenured professor at MIT, one of the most elite (and famously conservative) schools in the US. He's definitely in the upper 10 or 20% just from that. But of course, there is more. There is the whole 'Chomsky industry' of books, CD's, DVD's, tapes, pamphlets, etc (many of which are just regurgitations of previously made statements) Also, Chomsky goes on speaking tours all over America, no doubt he is being compensated for that as well. Chomsky is a celebrity intellectual and his "9-11" made the NY Times Bestsellers list. Noam Chomsky is a very wealthy man, perhaps not Donald Trump but certainly in top 5%.

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Re: Conspiracies vs. Concentrations of Wealth & Power

By Allen, Robert at Apr 08, 2005 18:18 PM
"Concentrations of wealth..hmm... and for a second there I thought Chomsky was going to talk about himself and all the other wealthy left-wing intellectuals." Roger, Not that it matters for logical purposes, but Donald Trump is wealthy; Prof. Chomsky is a humble scholar. You, on the other hand, are merely a punk making up for the inability to reason by engaging in smear tactics. C'mon boy, I dare you to fight back.

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Re: Conspiracies vs. Concentrations of Wealth & Power

By The, Roger at Apr 04, 2005 21:45 PM
Concentrations of wealth..hmm... and for a second there I thought Chomsky was going to talk about himself and all the other wealthy left-wing intellectuals. You know it's funny, if all the wealthy, bestselling left wing authors like Chomsky, Gore Vidal, Howard Zinn, etc and all the Lefties/Socialists in Hollywood got together and decided to actually practice what they preach, it's quite possible that poverty in America would be elminated by now.

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Re: Conspiracies vs. Concentrations of Wealth & Power

By Antiamerican800, Bernardo at Mar 15, 2005 21:32 PM
Chomsky is an institutional scientist and he suffers from all the intellectual deficiencies, willful blindness and prejudices that characterizes that minority who have done so much harm to the world. I would like to know when Chomsky is going to direct his analytical prowess to the American public who are the ultimate source of the ills he describes in his political writings. Investors, boards of directors, politicians, financiers, CEO's, and the police and military in particular all have their origin in and their values shaped by the majority of the American public. I would like to hear what he what he has to say about that fact and to quit being evasive. As for the "third world" I prefer to call them traditional cultures and people like Chomsky are among their greatest enemies.

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Re: Conspiracies vs. Concentrations of Wealth & Power

By Casten, J.d. at Mar 15, 2005 06:48 AM
7Natures: as far as dogma is concerned, I think it should be noted that when there is a marketplace of ideas, competition will mitigate one line of propaganda from being the sole voice of authority. Although certain ideas and ideals will be more pervasive (some might say more dominant), there are usually counter voices for people to consider, choose, & develop: it is the unquestioned assumptions of the majority of conflicting views that is often indicative of a culture's bias. But I think it smart to remember, that although good change has often come from progressives in the past, that does not mean that all current progressives are on the forefront of a better future: questioning your own authority as well is an intersting place to start.

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Re: Conspiracies vs. Concentrations of Wealth & Power

By Casten, J.d. at Mar 15, 2005 06:32 AM
Another issue that has been raised concerning this topic seems to be, "what is the psychological impact of different types of social organization." Psychology recognizes genetic and environmental factors (but not as often the reality of complex intelligent free choice) in the shaping of individuals. With all of a person's experiences, from the first sight of a catipillar to falling in love, how many environmental factors have to do with an economic base, or social mass media? I think personal psyches are too complex and overdetermined to predict how they will be "programmed" by a certain type of social organization- and that social organizations have little effect on "human nature" (but rather create opportunites, restrictions & encouragements for certain types of action). (My name/link is linked to my personal website).

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Re: Conspiracies vs. Concentrations of Wealth & Power

By Shannon, James at Mar 15, 2005 06:31 AM
Yes and choosing to beiieve that which they are programmed to accept as "True". Man chooses his truth. Tell a lie long enough "liberty and justice for all" and before long it is accepted dogma. Much like the bible!

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Re: Conspiracies vs. Concentrations of Wealth & Power

By Casten, J.d. at Mar 15, 2005 06:06 AM
However, although I do not believe political ads have much sway over voters, there are broad cultural assumptions that are often not questioned ("private property is a natural right" (as birds protect their nests), or "Socialism is undesirable" (due to Communist failures, or fear of too much state intervention in private matters)). I think the "Manufacture of Consent" is not a matter of power influence, as much as it is like various decentralized fads that spread because people integrate them with their predispostions (something seems "cool" for some possibly unknown reason). People have much to work with in making choices, from personal and interpersonal experiences to the local and mass media-- they are not programmed automatons, but complex intelligent beings working within their assumptions.

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Re: Conspiracies vs. Concentrations of Wealth & Power

By Casten, J.d. at Mar 15, 2005 05:55 AM
Concerning two topics in this post-- concentration of power, and political influence, I think two questions should be posed: 1) Do we want concentration of wealth when we have a progressive tax system?, and 2) Are elections actually bought? With the Reagan tax cuts, the top 1% went from paying 18% (1981) to 25% (1990) of all income taxes (do to reinvestment); is this "transferring costs to the great majority of the population"? Yet, concentrations of wealth might buy off politics? There is much more robust empirical support for the "Median Voter Theory" than for "special interest investment" theories-- voting is primarily about predispostion demographics (e.g. red & blue states), not ads dictating votes. Donald Wittman's book The Myth of Democratic Failure details "Why Political Institutions Are Efficeint" often in reference to "Median Voter Theory."

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Re: Conspiracies vs. Concentrations of Wealth & Power

By Tolsen1, R4d20 at Mar 12, 2005 04:38 AM
"Indeed, and I won't profess that all disagreements will just miraculously evaporate once we get to the point of having a society built on cooperation." What exactly do you mean by "a society built on cooperation"? I'm not asking for a detailed plan, but it's a pretty broad statement. I'm working with a professor who is researching the evolution of cooperation in multi-agent systems. She, and other professors in her field, study a lot of simple simulations inhabited by "agents" (autonomous pieces of code) and study the conditions necessary for cooperation and the types of cooperation that work under various conditions. It's all pretty simple and abstract now, but even at this level you can see that cooperation is not always "natural" - in that it is NOT always better for both individuals.

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Re: Conspiracies vs. Concentrations of Wealth & Power

By Shannon, James at Mar 11, 2005 02:16 AM
Personality conflicts are the excuse that allow dickwads and ignorant jerks to run corporations much like little Hitlers and Bushies. Ignorant jerks are everywhere. Self-employed 37years - Never worked for a jerk or with a jerk for long, except when in the Army and I had no choice. You can't change human nature. A leopard can't change his spots.

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Re: Conspiracies vs. Concentrations of Wealth & Power

By Tolsen1, R4d20 at Mar 11, 2005 01:59 AM
"There is no subjugation in that as long as there is an agreement on what to do." That is a big "if". I've been in enough comittes and meetings to known that personality conflicts can and do ruin even simple collaborations.

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Re: Conspiracies vs. Concentrations of Wealth & Power

By Gdtx, Texdog at Mar 08, 2005 20:23 PM
freedom is a product of inertia. the more you have the less you have. inertia is created within the stucture of power and finally reaches a critical mass. we are near but not yet at critical mass. let me just say that freedom as known in the 50s,60s,70s and 80s is preparing to move into the hospice.

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Re: Conspiracies vs. Concentrations of Wealth & Power

By Tolsen1, R4d20 at Mar 06, 2005 01:19 AM
"Saying our goal is self-preservation is a basic truism. Saying it is selfishness is pretty narrow-minded," It depends on what you means. Saying "all people are selfish" is narrow-minded, but saying "there will always be selfish people" is not. While I agree that some people are overly cynical about "human nature" I think other people tend to have ridiculous notions of societiess ability to mold people. I am sick of reading & hearing people say (as I have heard more than a few times) "crime and war are products of capitalism, but in an anarchist/socialist/whatever society people will be socialized better and this won't be a problem". It may not be "human nature" to rape, murder, or steal, but that doesn't mean society has enough control over our development to eliminate those problems merely by "Education".

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Re: Conspiracies vs. Concentrations of Wealth & Power

By Shannon, James at Mar 05, 2005 05:38 AM
It is not up to us. Is it the dominion of others that are "over" us. We can but survive to live another day. Witt has weakened nature. The cunning are starving off the strong. Killing the warriors with social order and cries of democracy and freedom and justice. Only by the power of wealth can man ever achieve any of those ideals. The priveledged send the ignorant to fight their battles. We are all emasculated by the power of their armies and tanks and bombs. Armies exist to keep them free as we slave away for their benefit so that we can survive one more day.

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Re: Conspiracies vs. Concentrations of Wealth & Power

By Rastafarianrobot, Noherosnomasters at Mar 05, 2005 02:56 AM
7Natures, I think that is a pretty simplistic way of looking at "human nature." As Dr. Chomsky loves to reiterate time and time again, there is very little we can say about human nature except that it has a broad capacity of expresssion. Saying our goal is self-preservation is a basic truism. Saying it is selfishness is pretty narrow-minded, IMO.

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Re: Conspiracies vs. Concentrations of Wealth & Power

By Bauerly, Mtbrad at Mar 05, 2005 02:54 AM
"All history stands as proof - all men are selfish self serving self promoting self centered animals - hell bent on survival no matter who else must suffer and die." Natural history does not show this. Humans are social animals, we create and care for families, clans, societies and recently nations. Humans have and have shown a propensity to use personal sacrifice for a larger cause or group. We would have not made it this far without this atribute. History shows that humans have "advanced" most when they have worked together. All this competition stuff is a construction of people hell bent on using others for their gain, which is but a few people. Under normal evolutionary situations they would be removed from the gene pool.

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Re: Conspiracies vs. Concentrations of Wealth & Power

By Shannon, James at Mar 05, 2005 02:35 AM
Wow! What is - is because of human nature. If man were different history would be "what ought to be". It is not as higher thinking eggs heads wish it were because people are animals. We are born we live we die. All else in between is human nature. All history stands as proof - all men are selfish self serving self promoting self centered animals - hell bent on survival no matter who else must suffer and die. We deny reality to live in some intellectual nervana so that we can ignore our own nature - our only goal is self preservation. However you want to cut it that a fact of human nature - of all nature.

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Re: Conspiracies vs. Concentrations of Wealth & Power

By Rastafarianrobot, Noherosnomasters at Mar 05, 2005 02:19 AM
It's is very refreshing to find such an elevated level of discourse going on here. The Naturalistic Fallacy is indeed a genius part of statist indoctrination (could history really have progress in any other way the elites quip...) and it really all starts, IMO, with getting getting people to realize this is not some innate human psychological trait but a finely molded lense corporate society has impressed upon us all from the cradle. If we look at the elites lastest stategic measures (as the concrete forms of mass media, video games, ect.) they are all propagated to pacify any chance breaking with this indoctrination of what is, is what ought to be.

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Re: Conspiracies vs. Concentrations of Wealth & Power

By Shannon, James at Mar 04, 2005 21:29 PM
Take the time to read a panel led by Peter G. Peterson last august. http://www.iie.com/publications/papers/peterson0804.pdf Money/Greed rules the world - that is the beginning middle and end of reality. Read Petersons book "Running on Empty" - he is an insider not some "wackjob" like us - $11.7 Trillion dollar swing in the deficit under the Republican watch - a $45 to $74 TRILION unfunded Social Security Medicare/Medicaid and Pension liability - and enormous trade deficits will untimately bring chaos to the world. No one (the WalMarts and The Dells)wants to recognize the China/India effect as human nature and personal greed moves the world toward financial melt down. The tax cuts - Iraq - and Homeland security have only sped up the process. Americans simply don't know - the future has been stolen from them as a result of greed and short sighted self serving corporations and politicians fueled by money and drunk on power. Bush and Bin Laden and their religious fanatics have insured that will never happen. Bully's and con-men all - that is human nature. We are beyond "CRISIS"- "we will pay any price" United we fall, devided we stand.

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Re: Conspiracies vs. Concentrations of Wealth & Power

By Protocol4, Nemo at Mar 04, 2005 20:34 PM
You have to clarify what you mean by "democracy". If it the difinition includes civil liberties, then I would have to disagree with you (as Chomsky has pointed out before, the U.S. probably has some of the best protection for civil liberties in the world, which is a legacy of past struggles).

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Re: Conspiracies vs. Concentrations of Wealth & Power

By K, Mr at Mar 04, 2005 20:30 PM
'Individualistic Anarchism' this is the corporate brainwashing methodology in which the 'masses' experience multitudes of reinforcers which have effects such as the level of voter participation and political awareness. Blame the corporate/government 'nexus' which supports the current status quo. Maybe there should be a 'smash your television' event just like the nazi's did with books. A left inititive rallying the masses to massive television 'turn-in's' where they can finally be free from the 'brainwash box'. There is no other way. Playstation and x-box have taken over the democratic spirit while the government takes away freedoms and entrenches draconian measure to keep the people from revolting. The tree of liberty needs to be refreshed. Only Americans can do it. Wake up brethren the world awaits!

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Re: Conspiracies vs. Concentrations of Wealth & Power

By K, Mr at Mar 04, 2005 20:19 PM
Ever since the Shay rebellion. The United States is about as democratic as Nigera. Only when United Nations observers are placed in the next polling booths will i believe that American democracy exists. The level of corruption and intimidation existed during the past two elections and this current president is no more of a represented leader of the people than Saddam was to the Iraqi people. When will the people wake up from their brainwashing? Where's the 'awakening'? Every American needs to turn off their television and start taking to the streets like they did in the Ukraine. After the fiasco in Florida and Ohio i've seen enough. Please don't arrest me for submitting my 'thought crime'.

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Re: Conspiracies vs. Concentrations of Wealth & Power

By Shorn, Http://www.bullbythehorns.blogspot.com at Mar 04, 2005 20:08 PM
I agree bwong. Perhaps the first step to bringing new people into the progressive fold is to stop referring to them as "the masses." Do we really need to point out that respect is important? Unfortunately, I often cringe at the comments I hear delivered by well-meaning progressives/radicals with regard to the common citizen. Pompous progressive posturing adds nothing positive to our national discourse and in fact is more likely to cause the average person to recoil, prompt them to join the Christian right, or worse, watch approvingly as the heartless thugs that control our institutions try to take the world by force.

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Re: Conspiracies vs. Concentrations of Wealth & Power

By Gammon101, Bwong at Mar 04, 2005 05:55 AM
"The problem lies in the fact that as soon as "lefties" begin speaking to the masses, all the years of endoctrination come out" Perhaps it would be more fruitful to follow the Socratic approach by asking people to defend their ideas instead of preaching to them? But then again even Socrates was sentenced to death for corrupting the youth. :)

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Re: Conspiracies vs. Concentrations of Wealth & Power

By Shorn, Http://www.bullbythehorns.blogspot.com at Mar 04, 2005 03:36 AM
I've read quite a bit of Thomas Ferguson's "Golden Rule" referenced here by Chomsky and would of course second his recommendation if anyone here is interested in reading further on this topic (Ferguson's footnotes are also a gold mine for further reading for that matter). In case anyone is interested, I write a daily/weekly blog and would love to see comments from my fellow progressive brothers & sisters in arms. Check it out at www.bullbythehorns.blogspot.com

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Re: Conspiracies vs. Concentrations of Wealth & Power

By Adabanasik, Ap2k at Mar 04, 2005 03:19 AM
The problem lies in the fact that as soon as "lefties" begin speaking to the masses, all the years of endoctrination come out: from junior high on we've been taught that we have freedom of speech (no one mentioned that the media is owned by a few conglomerates making speech not so free after all); we have freedom to own arms (why?...so we can come after the government if it starts straying off the path...yeah right); we have the best form of democracy (even though hardly anybody votes and the nation is entirely depoliticized on purpose); we fight wars to save or help others against world evil (no one taught us to hold ourselves up to the same standards as the evil)...we killed Native Americans and had slaves, but that's all over now...lynching is replaced by the electric chair and that is how things should be...we are #1...

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Re: Conspiracies vs. Concentrations of Wealth & Power

By Bauerly, Mtbrad at Mar 04, 2005 02:05 AM
This article gets to the root of what is talked about on most of the other blogs on this site. The economic elites that run this country, and have always ran this country are the source of the problems being discussed so frequantly by lefties. We need to focus on how this stops actual progress, no matter what the cause. If your cause would in some way hurt this class, you will fail in your indeavour. We have been fooled by consumer society into thinking that it is not about economics, that we are some how free. When every action benifits the few, they control everything.

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Re: Conspiracies vs. Concentrations of Wealth & Power

By Adabanasik, Ap2k at Mar 03, 2005 03:30 AM
as far as lawyers making laws...? I thought democracy was supposed to involve the people in making laws and lawyers were supposed to defend those laws when they are broken? instead we train lawers to find loopholes in the laws or to write laws so that there are loopholes (although only the enlightened ones who wrote the law know them)... I mean, Congress ultimately votes on the BIG laws and most of the Congressmen/women don't even have the time to read the 100s of pages involved in every bill/law...and even if they read some of the bill, they never have the time to get to the riders...which is where all the nasty stuff is slipped in... Ahh...democracy?!!

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Re: Conspiracies vs. Concentrations of Wealth & Power

By Adabanasik, Ap2k at Mar 03, 2005 03:23 AM
"I'd say from Chomsky's own experience on the Kibbutz, when he wasn't allowed to lead and forced to do hard labor, he is now crying over spilt milk." I'd hate to speak for Dr. Chomsky, but I don't think he went to live in a Kibbutz in order to lead and from what I've read, he did not leave because he was forced to do hard labor. He left because he found the establishment to be ultimately racist and not nearly as socialist as he had though it would be. Now, you're just pulling teeth (due to a lack of reasonable argument) to discredit Chomsky's views on power. What's the Kibbutz have to do with it???

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Re: Conspiracies vs. Concentrations of Wealth & Power

By Bauerly, Mtbrad at Mar 03, 2005 02:19 AM
"You people really need to figure out want you want." I don't even know what this means. Why would we be here, doesn't everybody know what they want. Are you trying to say that because we dislike this one type of government that we are idealistic?

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Re: Conspiracies vs. Concentrations of Wealth & Power

By Bauerly, Mtbrad at Mar 03, 2005 02:18 AM
"I'm sure if you look, you'll find people in the legislature that are not lawyers" Yes, a small percentage and a smaller percentage are not white, rich and male. You are not serriously claiming there is deversity in elected office in the US. "Being in government is power therefore those in government are powerful" This is backwards logic, the powerful are the ones let into government, not the other way around.

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By Bauerly, Mtbrad at Mar 03, 2005 02:15 AM
"Of course those who make the law, i.e., the legistlature, is made up of lawyers" Legislatures do not write the bills or the law, they vote on the validity of those bills or laws. There is no reason that a lawyer would be better suited to serving in government than anyone else. Lay school is all about finding ways around the law in order to take advantage of them or to plug them up. Elected representation is about ethical decisions based on life experiance, not on the ability to obfuscate the truth behind a large vocabulary.

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Re: Conspiracies vs. Concentrations of Wealth & Power

By Bok, Yakov at Mar 02, 2005 23:26 PM
Could Chomsky be more absurd? Of course those who make the law, i.e., the legistlature, is made up of lawyers. They understand the law! Do you really want a truck driver who most likely doesn't understand the law legal theory to be making laws? No! Besides, I'm sure if you look, you'll find people in the legislature that are not lawyers. As far as those in positions of power being in government, isn't that circular logic? Being in government is power therefore those in government are powerful. Besides, leaders lead. That's what they do. The reason we don't have truck drivers in charge is because the truck driver is not a leader. If the truck driver wants to get involved, let him. But that has yet to be seen. You people really need to figure out want you want. I'd say from Chomsky's own experience on the Kibbutz, when he wasn't allowed to lead and forced to do hard labor, he is now crying over spilt milk.

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Re: Conspiracies vs. Concentrations of Wealth & Power

By Cryofan, Cryofan at Mar 02, 2005 22:01 PM
This entry by chomsky is interesting to me because it deals with some ideas I have been kicking around for some time. But it is really quite obscure and hard to understand for anyone who is not already "into" chomsky and leftism. what we need is graphical representations of the ideas that chomsky is talking about. Imagine a video documentary with appropriate music and editing and having chart and disgrams illustrating these ideas. Even better would be tying Chomsky's ideas to more modern ideas about how organisms and animal societies work and live together symbiotically or parasitically.

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Re: Conspiracies vs. Concentrations of Wealth & Power

By Bauerly, Mtbrad at Mar 02, 2005 07:52 AM
Consentration of power is the founding principle of this country, 10% owned 60% of wealth then and the same is true now. This does not happen by acedent. Here is a very informantive web list on power consentration http://darkwing.uoregon.edu/~vburris/whorules/readings.htm

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