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"Deep Throat" & COINTELPRO

By Noam Chomsky at Jun 17, 2005

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The fact that you hadn't heard of COINTELPRO -- and that there isn't a word about it in the current "Deep Throat" coverage -- tells us quite a lot about the dominant moral and political culture. COINTELPRO was a program of the national political police, carried out through four administrations, with a very wide range of targets... ranging in methods up to direct political assassination. It was formally terminated after it was exposed in the courts in the early 70s. Someone in [Mark aka "Deep Throat"] Felt's position surely knew about it. I have no idea what he was involved in, and don't see that it matters much. Responsibility went right up to the White House, through four administrations. COINTELPRO was vastly more significant than Watergate, which was a tea party in comparison. The difference is that Watergate was annoying to powerful people, who struck back, while COINTELPRO targeted people who were weak, vulnerable, dissident, and in other ways remote from centers of power. Therefore anything done to them passes without concern among those who matter. As we have seen for 30 years, and see right now.

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was a program of the

By Dsv, Sdv at Dec 28, 2006 19:14 PM

was a program of the national political police, carried out through four administrations, with a very wide range of targets... ranging in methods up to direct political assassination. It was formally terminated after it was exposed in the courts in the early 70s.
Someone in [Mark aka "Deep Throat"]

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political assassination. It was formally terminated after it was exposed in the courts in the early 70s.
Someone in [Mark aka "Deep Throat"] Felt's position surely knew about it. I have no idea what he was involved in, and don't see that it matters much. Responsibility went right up to the White

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cointelpro

By Anonymous, Anonymous at Oct 10, 2006 08:27 AM
If cointelpro exist today, how would an affected person resolve the situation.

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Black Panthers

By Kissenger, Clark at Jul 12, 2006 05:53 AM
The COINTELPRO program systematically endorsed the mass assasinations of Black Planther members and essentially terminated their effectiveness and political objectives.  The centers of power viewed the organization as a threat primarily because they began to raise the conciousness of many black and disadvantaged people across the nation.  The powerful people were able to label them as dissidents and demonize them as gun crazy vigilanties.  COINTELPRO was a declaration to all citizens that extreme power will be deployed anytime it determines that it is being challenged. 

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Black Panthers

By Kissenger, Clark at Jul 12, 2006 05:50 AM
The COINTELPRO program systematically endorsed the mass assasinations of Black Planther members and essentially terminated their effectiveness and political objectives.  The centers of power viewed the organization as a threat primarily because they began to raise the conciousness of many black and disadvantaged people across the nation.  The powerful people were able to label them as dissidents and demonize them as gun crazy vigilanties.  COINTELPRO was a declaration to all citizens that extreme power will be deployed anytime it determines that it is being challenged. 

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Black Panthers

By Kissenger, Clark at Jul 12, 2006 05:49 AM
The COINTELPRO program systematically endorsed the mass assasinations of Black Planther members and essentially terminated their effectiveness and political objectives.  The centers of power viewed the organization as a threat primarily because they began to raise the conciousness of many black and disadvantaged people across the nation.  The powerful people were able to label them as dissidents and demonize them as gun crazy vigilanties.  COINTELPRO was a declaration to all citizens that extreme power will be deployed anytime it determines that it is being challenged. 

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Re: "Deep Throat" & COINTELPRO

By Antiamerican800, Bernardo at Jul 15, 2005 02:46 AM
Rock music has it's origins (mostly anyway) in non-western sources. Like black american slave songs from whence comes authentic jazz as performed in Negro shanty towns in Mississippi. White dilettantes would frequent the whore houses of such places and hear these songs, thus leading to the white tie "respectability" of New York and commodification. Which are western. Elvis Presley (a Southern boy) of course did the same thing with Chuck Berry and Little Richard who were there before him.

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Re: "Deep Throat" & COINTELPRO

By Antiamerican800, Bernardo at Jul 15, 2005 00:49 AM
"Chomsky is like Lenin." How is Chomsky like Lenin? Chomsky is not in charge of an army or navy or air force. He initiated no pogroms and has publicly stated his opposition to communism many times. Noting that corporations are the closest thing to communism currently in the world. More solipsistic reasoning from Abyss.

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Re: "Deep Throat" & COINTELPRO

By Antiamerican800, Bernardo at Jul 15, 2005 00:39 AM
Abyss is just suffering from the post traumatic stress syndrome he got from the many beatings on the behind administered by his Christian fundamentalist momma and poppa. Such solipsistic rampant subjectivisms are typical behavior traits of such people. Including G.W. Bush.

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Re: "Deep Throat" & COINTELPRO

By Johnny12345, Jacobro at Jul 07, 2005 07:15 AM
YankeeGoHome, Look, Africa's problems are far more serious than the lack of "advertising" their culture gets. No African has died yet, to my knowledge, because of low CD sales. When schoolchildren sell chocolate-covered almonds, they don't just say, "Want to buy some chocolate covered almonds?" They also raise awareness about Africa's SERIOUS problems (which, again, do not include a lack of CD sales). Same thing with Live 8. They weren't just saying, "Want to listen to some rock music?" They too raised awareness about REAL problems in Africa. One group uses chocolate-covered almonds, while the other used rock music. Both are western cultural products, chosen to maximize western support for the cause. And both methods are 100% harmless to Africans. By the way, it's pretty arrogant for you to presume I was lying about Fela, because you're wrong. I've been listening to him for years. And any fan who really appreciated Fela wouldn't tell people to just skip the first five minutes of "Zombie." If you really don't think those five minutes are worth listening to, you really don't have a clue what you're talking about. The rest of your rant has nothing to do with my point.

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Re: "Deep Throat" & COINTELPRO

By Yankygohome1, Yankygohome at Jul 07, 2005 06:02 AM
In a "Time" article this question was put to Geldof: "There's been a fair bit of criticism about the lack of African musicians on the Live 8 bill. You've announced a separate Afrocentric show in Cornwall, but why not integrate the African acts into the other line-ups? Isn't cultural awareness as important as issue awareness?" GELDOF: This is a political event, not a cultural event. In order to get political momentum, one guy with a banner is not enough. You need millions. So, Mr Geldof, where were the millions with political banners? As someone wrote on the BBC news Web site, reporting from Paris: "Many kids have been here since early this morning wearing t-shirts of their favourite artists like Placebo, Muse and the Cure. But gaze over the excited audience and there are practically no banners with any political messages saying Make Poverty History." That's because it was NOT a political event, it was a pop extravaganza. If Bob Geldof had told everyone to march on the street, rather than attend a concert, how many would have turned out? Millions??

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Re: "Deep Throat" & COINTELPRO

By Yankygohome1, Yankygohome at Jul 07, 2005 05:06 AM
Third, it's good diplomacy. By promoting African bands ("the world was watching," after all, and African music is fairly popular in Europe), it shows this wasn't just about the West chucking a bit of money Africa's way out of pity, but a serious - if inadequate - attempt by the public to address economic injustices. Western corporations, for instance, can easily market their products to Africa because of the continent's underdeveloped economies; the opposite is not so easily the case. Fourth, Africa is NOT a continent of backward people. How insulting not to let Africans showcase some of their culture, to talk to the crowd, and change people's perceptions. Finally, given how insular American and British societies are (the leading rogue states), such exposure to a foreign culture can only be a good thing. >…listen to those first five >minutes of "Zombie" again. They're a lot >better than you give them credit for. First, I don't even think you downloaded that song. Second, I did not say the introduction was lousy, I said it was too long, particularly for Westerners. I have many Fela Kuti CDs, so I don't need to listen to the introduction over and over again. His music is familiar to me.

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Re: "Deep Throat" & COINTELPRO

By Yankygohome1, Yankygohome at Jul 07, 2005 04:42 AM
Jacobro writes: >Since fried ants are a delicacy in Africa, >shouldn't they be selling those instead? >Are these children showcasing our "culinary >superiority" over Africans? > >Of course not, and what you're suggesting >is ridiculous. Selling rock music is no >more harmful to Africans than selling >chocolate-covered almonds. You've missed >the point. No, this is about raising awareness of Africa. You don't do that by immersing people in their own culture. How do companies raise awareness of their brands? By advertising and promoting them, of course! By not "advertising" Africa at the main event, people will have gone home with fond memories of their favorite bands, rather than with the reason why this event was held foremost in their minds. In addition, some people might have discovered that they like African music, had they been given a chance to hear it. This interest might have spurred them on to find out more about Africa. And who knows what influence in the world these people might have in the future. Bob Geldof isn't going to be around forever - and a fundraiser every 20 years solves very little, anyway.

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Re: "Deep Throat" & COINTELPRO

By Tankdriverk, Tankdriverk1 at Jul 06, 2005 16:55 PM
The right-wing--which now seems to include Christopher Hitchens, the British windbag--love to savage Chomsky. The unintended side-effect of their collective hot air, is lots of people are now aware of NM and his well-articulated opinions on US domestic affairs and foreign policy. Previously, Chomsky was ignored and left to languish in relative obscurity. Keep it going, Bomber Hitchens!

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Re: "Deep Throat" & COINTELPRO

By Jr_xyz, Jr2xyz at Jul 06, 2005 16:26 PM
"Instead of a team effort, this "crusade for truth" has become a marathon run by individuals. Who will win it? Who will get the most points? The loudest applause? Chomsky? You? Me? (assuming I decide to take part). Them, over there?" chomsky definitely...on both counts

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Re: "Deep Throat" & COINTELPRO

By Yankygohome1, Yankygohome at Jul 06, 2005 16:23 PM
Instead of a team effort, this "crusade for truth" has become a marathon run by individuals. Who will win it? Who will get the most points? The loudest applause? Chomsky? You? Me? (assuming I decide to take part). Them, over there? >May God provide you with vision to see the >truth, and the energy to work for justice, >as He has commanded me. I'm agnostic. However, one thing is for certain: we are alone in this life. If there is a moral god, "he" does not intervene. God only knows why! (pun intended) If this weren't the case, "God" would command Bush and Blair to be decent people, or, failing that, ensure they met an untimely death.

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Re: "Deep Throat" & COINTELPRO

By Yankygohome1, Yankygohome at Jul 06, 2005 15:56 PM
America is an insular society. Americans created that society - NOT ME! Americans only want to hear how great their nation is, how wonderful they are. Even Chomsky plays to that. All this is THEIR doing, and no one can be expected to devote their lives to changing that. It is an impossible task. However, someone needs to redress the balance, so please don't expect me to praise the American people. They are like spoilt children who, even when they do wrong, are smothered with love. >As you may read on my web site, my coaching >efforts for Samir were highly successful. I spoke to an Iraqi, studying in Britain, but whose family is in Iraq. He said I was a very understanding and educated person. You have no idea what kind of person I am, either. >I...witnessed the immoral British and >American massacre of Dresden. On another board, a person gave me some good advice. They said, don't waste your time with all this, thirty years from now nothing significant will have changed, and you will have thrown your life away. I have more respect for that person than Chomsky and the people on this board, who are happy to send someone to their grave.

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Re: "Deep Throat" & COINTELPRO

By Yankygohome1, Yankygohome at Jul 06, 2005 15:33 PM
Comment by wolfgangpmay: "You have absolutely no idea what I am talking about." I'm afraid I do. The unnecessary atom-bombing of Japan, and over 120,000 innocent men, women, and children summarily executed. It was one of the worst crimes against humanity the world has ever seen, yet there was no remorse shown by the American public, no soul-searching, no questions asked, such as "was this really necessary?" Thus, the Americans paved the way for future atrocities, which included Vietnam, includes Iraq, and may soon include Iran. >As you will see on my web page (If the link >on zmag will not function, just type "war >around us" into any search engine. The >first result will be my web page. Look, I am not responsible for mankind. As individuals, we are accountable for our actions. I have never trusted governments or corporations, never thought armies are used for virtuous purposes. Don't attack me for the crimes and stupidity of others.

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Re: "Deep Throat" & COINTELPRO

By Jr_xyz, Jr2xyz at Jul 06, 2005 12:55 PM
"By turning Chomsky into a messiah, you are making a mockery of what you supposedly stand for. No longer is it the truth that matters; no longer is it humanity; it is Chomsky - and only Chomsky! ....... Chomsky has become a cult." I think the-abyss may be a little jealous of the great iconic chomsky...i think she started her own blog but no one was interested...not a single hit i'm afraid.... and could you stop being so rude to others the-abyss!!....i hope your next post finds you a little saner and perhaps a little more on-topic

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Re: "Deep Throat" & COINTELPRO

By Jr_xyz, Jr2xyz at Jul 06, 2005 12:26 PM
time out, time out people lets keep this a good clean match "Where were the African musicians at the Live 8 concert in London?" i think they wanted famous mainstream artists and there aren't many african musicians who fit the bill. "That's not to imply the biggest names in African music live in shanty towns. Singers such as Baaba Maal are doing just fine, thank you very much." indeed! "For the oldies on here who are too senile to enjoy music, don't complain about my post. Just go away and die." A BIT HARSH "However, by refusing to place African musicians center stage, Geldof laid bare his own cynicism about human nature.!" forget about it yo...it's done now "The British had paid money to have a good day out, not to talk politics or learn about African culture." "The only snag - as Bob knows only too well - most people couldn't give a damn. They just want to be entertained. " hmmm...so true..when i saw the sweaty drunk ignorant ugly pink faces entering hyde park it almost made me physically vomit "Typical Yankee - his only concern is for HIS people, no matter what atrocity they commit. We'll bomb Iraq, slaughter tens of thousands, and then make sure none of OUR troops are harmed. Americans are an absolute disgrace." Well said that man!....succinctly put "But you're right, to hell with those BLACK, African low-lifes, American soldiers in Iraq come first." lol, i think you're being a bit too touchy here

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Re: "Deep Throat" & COINTELPRO

By Johnny12345, Jacobro at Jul 06, 2005 09:44 AM
YankeeGoHome, Are you offended when schoolchildren sell chocolate-covered almonds to support Africans? Since fried ants are a delicacy in Africa, shouldn't they be selling those instead? Are these children showcasing our "culinary superiority" over Africans? Of course not, and what you're suggesting is ridiculous. Selling rock music is no more harmful to Africans than selling chocolate-covered almonds. You've missed the point. P.S. You should listen to those first five minutes of "Zombie" again. They're a lot better than you give them credit for.

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Re: "Deep Throat" & COINTELPRO

By Aagha, Dude at Jul 06, 2005 05:10 AM
There is a very good book called "Agents of Repression", by Ward Churchill and Jim Vander Wall. (isbn 0-89608-293-8). It recounts COINTELPRO in detail. You cannot read it without asking how the mainstream media managed not to mention it anywhere even when they discuss the F.B.I. leadership.

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Re: "Deep Throat" & COINTELPRO

By The-abyss, The-abyss at Jul 05, 2005 05:48 AM
You are so controlled in the U.S., so thoroughly indoctrinated by the corporate media, your government, and your love of your country, that you think Chomsky has unearthed all this information by himself. It's evident by the ignorance on this blog that few of you have actually read his books. As I said before, Chomsky makes no attempt to appeal to the layman. His writing style is unapproachable to the overwhelming majority. 99% of people don't know who the hell he is. Maybe if Chomsky listened to others - instead of lecturing them! - he might have broader appeal. Don't blame me for Chomsky's failings. If he has nothing to hide, why does he refuse to disclose his earnings from his writings, speeches, and interviews? Why should I believe Chomsky - because he's Chomsky? It's up to him to prove to others that he isn't a fraud, making money from other people's misery - not me! If I'm going to have faith in what Chomsky says, he has to prove to me he's a man of conviction. Les Roberts risked his life going to Iraq to estimate the number of dead (100,000); Chomsky merely quotes this guy's - and his team's - research. Wake up and smell the coffee. Chomsky has become a cult.

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Re: "Deep Throat" & COINTELPRO

By The-abyss, The-abyss at Jul 05, 2005 05:23 AM
More abusive e-mails. This person left no return address, so I'll write my reply here. >You really should get a life, you sad >little person. > >Until you learn to respect humanity you >should do us all a favor and shut up. It is you Chomsky fanatics who need to get a life and have respect for humanity (unlike you, I also include animals in that). By turning Chomsky into a messiah, you are making a mockery of what you supposedly stand for. No longer is it the truth that matters; no longer is it humanity; it is Chomsky - and only Chomsky! Chomsky recommends almost no books or articles to read other than his own. It's all about Chomsky, both on his "blog" and on his "official" site. That's what is sad. Chomsky wanting everyone to rely on him. He's as controlling when it comes to information as the governments he condemns. If you Americans weren't so ignorant, you'd know Chomsky is not saying anything original. He is not saying anything people in other countries don't know about, or anything others haven't written about. He admits this himself. So why do you treat him like a god? It's OK to criticize me or anyone else on this board, but not Chomsky.

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Re: "Deep Throat" & COINTELPRO

By Wolfgangpmay, Wolfgangpmay at Jul 05, 2005 03:04 AM
You have absolutely no idea what I am talking about. Many years ago, while I was working for my MBA degree, I happened to listen to the "Ed Bush Talk Show", and was surprised to hear that a young Arab engineering student by the name of Samir Farah was scheduled to debate an Israeli University Professor, whose specialty was history. I thought that the two were badly mismatched, and decided to even the score. I sought out Samir, who ultimately became my friend, and spent several days coaching him on how to debate successfully, and make an impact on the relatively closed minds of most Americans. As you will see on my web page (If the link on zmag will not function, just type "war around us" into any search engine. The first result will be my web page. I have also posted my site on an islamic page, as well as on a poetry site, in a feeble attempt to stop our illegal war against Iraq. As you may read on my web site, my coaching efforts for Samir were highly successful. Mostly because of my efforts, a lot of Americans actually had a greater appreciation of the Palestinian situation. As you will see on my web site, I was born in the ancient German city of Breslau, and witnessed the immoral British and American massacre of Dresden in February, 1945. May God provide you with vision to see the truth, and the energy to work for justice, as He has commanded me.

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Re: "Deep Throat" & COINTELPRO

By Yankygohome1, Yankygohome at Jul 05, 2005 01:51 AM
"instead of bickering about such irrelevant stuff as Bob Geldof's motivation, we need to concentrate our efforts to get our troops out of Iraq" Had you bothered to read what I wrote, I was talking about the motivation - or rather the lack of motivation - of the masses in helping others. But you're right, to hell with those BLACK, African low-lifes, American soldiers in Iraq come first. Wolfgangpmay: "...where I was mortared every night until I returned fire and killed some children in the process" So, you were a soldier. One of the Zombies Fela Kuti sang about. "I...Killed some children..." This should shock me, but nothing Americans do anymore shocks me. Did you trample on their little heads afterwards, shouting, "DIE YOU F*CK**G TERRORIST!"

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Re: "Deep Throat" & COINTELPRO

By Yankygohome1, Yankygohome at Jul 05, 2005 01:24 AM
Wolfgangpmay comments: "instead of bickering about such irrelevant stuff as Bob Geldof's motivation, we need to concentrate our efforts to get our troops out of Iraq" OUR troops? They ARE NOT my troops. To hell with American troops - all they are doing is butchering innocent Iraqis. Typical Yankee - his only concern is for HIS people, no matter what atrocity they commit. We'll bomb Iraq, slaughter tens of thousands, and then make sure none of OUR troops are harmed. Americans are an absolute disgrace. The only way to stop America, it seems, is to bomb that country, to make Americans understand what it feels like to have a boot to your throat.

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Re: "Deep Throat" & COINTELPRO

By Wolfgangpmay, Wolfgangpmay at Jul 04, 2005 20:44 PM
As I recall, we started out reflecting on the importance of Felt's book. If I understand Noam Chomski correctly, he's right. We're talking about ancient history, while we should be concerned about the crimes our government is perpetrating against other nations, and against our soldiers. The war in Iraq is a lot more lethal to our troops, than what I experienced in Vietnam (Trung Lap, edge of the "Iron Triangle, where I was mortared every night until I returned fire and killed some children in the process). Instead of bickering about such irrelevant stuff as Bob Geldof's motivation, we need to concentrate our efforts to get our troops out of Iraq)

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Re: "Deep Throat" & COINTELPRO

By Yankygohome1, Yankygohome at Jul 03, 2005 20:07 PM
At the Live 8 Concert, Geldof told the audience and viewers not to listen to the media, not to pay attention to the cynical voices. This CAN work, he assured us. However, by refusing to place African musicians center stage, Geldof laid bare his own cynicism about human nature. Geldof assumed no one wanted to hear African music, that no one is interested in African culture or the problems that continent faces. This was a concert for the West to enjoy, and broadcast across the globe to show our cultural superiority. The British had paid money to have a good day out, not to talk politics or learn about African culture. Geldof said he stands in awe of the likes of Paul McCartney. Not surprising then that this former Beatle was given plenty of time on stage. Geldof is as cynical as they come. No wonder he got knighted and became a "Sir". When the elite are in trouble, all they have to do is wheel out SIR Bob Geldof, who'll tell the world: buy a concert ticket, fuss a bit to your leaders – they're decent people, really, they'll listen - and the world's problems will be solved. The only snag - as Bob knows only too well - most people couldn't give a damn. They just want to be entertained.

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Re: "Deep Throat" & COINTELPRO

By Yankygohome1, Yankygohome at Jul 03, 2005 04:16 AM
That's not to imply the biggest names in African music live in shanty towns. Singers such as Baaba Maal are doing just fine, thank you very much. One African musician (from Nigeria), Fela (Anikulapo) Kuti, who died in 1997, and whom I consider the James Brown of African music, wrote a song I think ought to be played in America on July 4th. The song is entitled "Zombie". It's about soldiers, which Fela regards as a bunch of zombies who merely obey orders - turn left, turn right, stand up, sit down, fall down, go kill, ATTEN-SHUN!! - and it's precisely what the American army and the American people have become - ZOMBIES!! I recommend downloading "Zombie" by Fela Kuti to hear how good African artists can be. The song is loud and angry, and has a message, which is more than can be said for effeminate music produced by rappers in the U.S. After mocking the Nigerian army with this song, soldiers came to Fela's house, beat him up, and threw his mother out the window. She later died in hospital. Zombie has a 5-minute introduction. Far too long. Skip it, and get to the best part. For the oldies on here who are too senile to enjoy music, don't complain about my post. Just go away and die.

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Re: "Deep Throat" & COINTELPRO

By Yankygohome1, Yankygohome at Jul 03, 2005 02:49 AM
In two days time, the world will witness the hideous sight of hundreds of millions of Americans celebrating American Independence Day. This orgy of self-indulgence is taking place at a time when America is denying independence to the Iraqis in pursuit of an imperialist ambition. Tens of thousands of innocent civilians have already been slaughtered; and, no doubt, while Americans celebrate in blissful ignorance and wilful denial, more Iraqis will be murdered. Americans have no shame! And neither does Bob Geldof. Where were the African musicians at the Live 8 concert in London? Once again, the West making a fool of Africa. Those poor, starving Africans, so helpless that we not only have to show them how to make a living, but we also have to show them how to make music as well. Fact is, there are many talented musicians in Africa, many as talented as the big-name artists in the West; some are more talented. Geldof talks about free trade. Here was a chance to expose Western ears to a different style of music, to encourage people to go out and buy African music, to stimulate trade, but Geldof decided that our money is best spent on Western artists, who already have plenty.

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Re: "Deep Throat" & COINTELPRO

By Lewis, RA at Jul 02, 2005 12:42 PM
* "Me and My Shadow": A History of the FBI's Covert Operations and COINTELPRO - Part 1. 34:21 minute Real Audio. Produced by Adi Gevins, Pacifica Radio. 1976. Rebroadcast by Democracy Now! Wednesday, June 5th, 2002. Retrieved May 12, 2005. http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=03/04/07/0259253&mode=thread&tid=5 * "Me and My Shadow": A History of the FBI's Covert Operations and COINTELPRO - Part 2. 13:43 minute Real Audio. Produced by Adi Gevins, Pacifica Radio. 1976. Rebroadcast by Democracy Now! Thursday, June 6th, 2002. Retrieved May 12, 2005. http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=03/04/07/0259257&mode=thread&tid=5 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COINTELPRO Who will be the next Deep Throat? Oh yes, it's a bit dated but... here is my favorite conspiracy theory: http://www.fortunecity.com/victorian/mill/1189/psywar2.txt

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Re: "Deep Throat" & COINTELPRO

By Yankygohome1, Yankygohome at Jul 01, 2005 22:55 PM
The song "Mad World" was written by a BRITISH pop band, "Tears for Fears", in the 1980s. It was re-recorded by a couple of Americans not so long ago. http://www.azlyrics.com/lyrics/tearsforfears/madworld.html Sadness isn't what Americans excel at; murdering and empty boasting, on the other hand, is something they do exceptionally well.

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Re: "Deep Throat" & COINTELPRO

By Yankygohome1, Yankygohome at Jul 01, 2005 21:51 PM
Americans have no shame; it's a mad world. To see how mad the world is, visit the following page: http://cecimoz.co.uk/ Click on "Flash Animation", which you'll find on the left side of the page, near the top. Ignore the animation that loads; instead click on "1" under the title "Misery" in the flash animation panel. A page will load. Once the page has loaded, move your mouse over the first letter of the word "Play" and click. Then sit back, watch and listen.

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Re: "Deep Throat" & COINTELPRO

By Newman, Stoph at Jun 30, 2005 15:54 PM
New to this site but having a quick scan through the comments my thoughts are as follows: I'd never advocate banning someone, even if they are abusive and attack individuals. Ignore them, allow then to make fools of themselves or punch holes in their arguments. Secondly, yes Noam is a professor of linguistics. He is also a man that wants everyone to challenge his assertions, that what he says is obvious and that it is in the public domain. He never claims to be an international relations expert nor says that you have to be to have a say. As an individual he has the right to disclose his assets or not to disclose them. If he is hypocritical with his wealth then he has to live with that. I personnally don't think he is or he'd get a new jumper.

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Re: "Deep Throat" & COINTELPRO

By Rastafarianrobot, Noherosnomasters at Jun 29, 2005 08:09 AM
Boy Abyss and r4d20 are quite the tag team. Everyone knows about COINTELPRO, are you functionally retarded? lol, YOU probably don't even know about COINTELPRO (ironically you don't mention any details you just make the generic, obtuse statement that everybody knows about it). Most people in this country could even tell you who the chief justice of the supreme court is but the majority of them has intricate knowledge of COINTELPRO. Nice necessary delusion.

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Re: "Deep Throat" & COINTELPRO

By Tissiwne, Rebop at Jun 27, 2005 09:29 AM
I agree that what's going on in Latin America is highly significant. Frankly, I think it signals the complete failure of the neoliberal globalization project. Not that globalization is just going to go away tomorrow, but its death knell has been sounded, and the opposition isn't confined only to Latin America. The big question is, what will happen when Washington, distracted now by the debacle in Iraq, finally attempts to reassert its regional hegemony? The history of how the US has dealt with threats to its "preferred modes of economic organization" of its vassal states in the past isn't very pleasant. Still, this time the opposition is pretty widespread, seems fairly well organized and has a powerful, if somewhat erratic and less than stellar voice in the person of Hugo Chavez. Remember, Chavez didn't just spring up out of the ground yesterday. He built his strength incrementally over a number of years. Lula seems to be following the same wise course. Populist or leftist Latin American leaders who push too swiftly for substantive reforms tend to just as swiftly meet untimely ends. Peter

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Re: "Deep Throat" & COINTELPRO

By Organum, Baby at Jun 24, 2005 22:55 PM
Babylon, the mighty has fallen ;-) And red , internationally a colour of socialists , is republican election flag, No ? We are divided by a gap in use of symbols and use of language. Oldest problem in the world. Perhaps GWB is misunderstood ? Heh ! ;-) Just as reformists are misunderstood. The word "revolution" allso needs context :-)

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Re: "Deep Throat" & COINTELPRO

By Goffchile, Goffchile at Jun 24, 2005 19:22 PM
I don't think the terms "liberal" and "conservative" really mean the same thing in the context of US politics as they do internationally. Most American politicians are "neo-liberal" in the sense that they support the controlled retraction of the welfare state combined with international "free" trade designed to reward nations which adopt policies which conducive to international capitalism and punish those that don't. In the US, we have "neo-cons"--a particularly ardent and well positioned right wing, which supports a more aggressive state, both domestically and internationally, to batter down popular opposition to neo-liberal polices and grind under international resistance through military force. I am sure that there are neo-con equivalents in other countries, they just don't seem to be as well positioned--largely becauses the carry the taint of fascism--something which Americans don't seem to be terribly concerned about.

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Re: "Deep Throat" & COINTELPRO

By Isjoel, Apples at Jun 24, 2005 18:03 PM
Neo-cons are politicians who claim to represent conservative ideals, one of which is pushing for markets that are more liberal or free, hence neoliberal reform. Maybe Noam will give us some more background on the expressions. Regardless, it's easier to say a bunch of leeches who claim to be plasters, all the while freeing your blood by sucking it out. I'm glad others are hopeful about S. America. What do you think Marcos is up to over in Chiapas? Is the mayor of Mex. City, who was incarcerated, any better than the rest of the establishment? I believe something has got to give in Mexico. The minimum wage is 40 pesos (less than 4 dollars) / per day, and an average meal out costs 40 pesos!!! Minimum wage in the US puts you in poverty, but you could eat out at least 5 times with a days work. Peru is also a place to follow. The farmer president seems to be out of favor and this may lead to a push to the left. CAFTA=MIERDA; VIVA BOLIVAR

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Re: "Deep Throat" & COINTELPRO

By Isjoel, Apples at Jun 24, 2005 00:02 AM
neo-liberal or neo-conservative?

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Re: "Deep Throat" & COINTELPRO

By Organum, Baby at Jun 22, 2005 23:28 PM
Lula had to swallow a lot of camels and play hard economy , thus loosing support from unions and such. Now, however , this social reformer has gotten Brazil out of the grasp of the world bank and maybe reforms can continue. Brazil is 8th world economy and even though their pres is socialist, many liberalist laws of economy apply. Luckily the climate now is such that USA no longer will kill an Allende, nor drive a Castro from soial-democracy and into the arms of a Kremlin-mafia. Chiles tradeagreement with china is just a forerunner for new economical alliances. ( CNN warned against the "long term effects" on economies. The basic problem remains though. Human right and dignity could cost profit. If you cant scrap the loosers , some will bale out. Are the remaining forces of capital and academia able to use the labour and resource available ? Or will defaitism on behalf of own nation make the middleclass run and hide behind walls , dogs and cayman bank accounts ? As to US crimes during the cold war era. When a Behemoth of 55% of world gross prod faces a Leviathan of 30% World gross prod on battlefields ideological, economical and traditional, its as the-abbys so eloquently put it " accidents happen"

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Re: "Deep Throat" & COINTELPRO

By K, Mr at Jun 22, 2005 23:09 PM
The lord now protects the discordant from the evils of state monitoring and Stalinist techniques of control. The lord shepherds his left wing radicals with a good legal education and the ability to keep witnesses handy at all time in case of state sabotage. COINTEL exists but in a new name and an increased budget. God save the hominid from the hominid. Big brother is watching and your all on his list. They look just like you and i. Agentized and obedient to their master's call. Capital save's their soul from the deviance which this covert beauracracy betokens.

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Re: "Deep Throat" & COINTELPRO

By Jbrownil, Jbrownil at Jun 22, 2005 21:28 PM
I've thought about Latin America a lot in recent months. This site alone has numerous inspiring accounts of what's going on there. I think this is a growing movement in many places and Latin America seems to be at the forefront.

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Re: "Deep Throat" & COINTELPRO

By Mmhhii, Adoo at Jun 22, 2005 20:49 PM
"All in all, the trend in Latin America looks like a genuine outbreak of everything the neoliberals fear, and as such it's the most hopeful development on the planet right now." Agree. The big question is: is it the last spasm of resistance against the glorious march of neoliberalism, or the first glimmering of real change? Who knows?

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Re: "Deep Throat" & COINTELPRO

By Isjoel, Apples at Jun 22, 2005 17:47 PM
back to the topic everyone... Does anyone else feel that a big change is taking place in S. America? I realize that the days of COINTELPRO are from from over, but it appears there may be a shift away from the Americas. This could have to do with the amount of hispanics in America. Many politicians are now trying to learn Spanish (todavia son hijos de putas pero bueno). Everyone will agree that the hispanic vote is important on a national level and at a local level in many places accross the country. Am I being too hopeful? Will the movements in Bolivia and Ecuador be stopped? Will Uruguay, Brazil, and Venezuela be turned around? I know Senor Bush already tried to overthrow Chavez, but that attempt seems like the last stage of transition. From overt war, to overt action, to covert war, to covert action, to super covert stop it if they find out action, to let it be let it be. Anyway, it's good to be hopeful every once in a while.

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Re: "Deep Throat" & COINTELPRO

By Mjc7373, Mcorbin at Jun 22, 2005 03:05 AM
the-abyss: You are expressing a lot of hostility to Noam Chomsky here. I have not heard one explanation from you as to how or why his arguments are wrong. This is a perfect place to debate the merits of Chomsky's expressed views, but character assassinations alone will get you nowhere. I'm guessing that the level of hostility you are expressing here is proportional to your inability to express your point of view logically.

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Re: "Deep Throat" & COINTELPRO

By Peterson, David at Jun 21, 2005 05:52 AM
Friends: Ignore The-Abyss is you must (Jay Bostrom posted on Saturday, June 18 at 08:57 PM, echoing others). But by no means remove The-Abyss' blogging privileges. Herein, The-Abyss ought to enjoy exactly the same access as the rest of us do. No more. No less.

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Re: "Deep Throat" & COINTELPRO

By Organum, Baby at Jun 20, 2005 21:45 PM
COINTELPRO was closed down right? Then we should look for its successor. Maybe those thinktanks Da Chum mentioned. New American Century and all that. Rising oilprises is after all not a threat to the Energy-magnates nor a big downer for rich countries. They do not need to steal oil in Iraq. Just privatize, internationalize and hold it in reserve. High price means the poor and many cant buy more oil. After all they are the only ones able to challenge anglosaxon pragmatism and no holds barred globelization. Who else ? France, Germany, and a clutter of social-democrats ? ( Runs of giggeling hysterically )

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Re: "Deep Throat" & COINTELPRO

By Jbrownil, Jbrownil at Jun 20, 2005 21:42 PM
Of the many people I've asked about COINTELPRO - probably less than 10% have ever even heard of it, let alone know the details. I'm talking about mostly intelligent and generally free-thinking people. Of all the media coverage about "Deep Throat", we hear nothing of his involvement in COINTELPRO or of his conviction because of it. So all we have is this ridiculous discussion on whether or not Felt is a hero with either side never mentioning that he's a criminal. Even if everyone knew about this should the media just ignore it all together? As Graeme said these people know it but it's just not important enough to talk about. But of course it is important, especially when the debate is his status a "hero". The good does not negate the bad.

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Re: "Deep Throat" & COINTELPRO

By Tolsen1, R4d20 at Jun 20, 2005 19:07 PM
"The fact that you hadn't heard of COINTELPRO—and that there isn't a word about it in the current “Deep Throat” coverage—tells us quite a lot about the dominant moral and political culture. " Umm... nearly EVERYONE has heard about COINTELPRO. Maybe it makes one feel good to lie about who knows what, but COINTELPRO is COMMON KNOWLEDGE among educated people and to pretend that it is some government "Secret" that only the left knows about is just bullcrap.

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Re: "Deep Throat" & COINTELPRO

By Organum, Baby at Jun 20, 2005 01:02 AM
Dear Abyss. I freely admit that Chomsky is one of my false gods. As one of the fallen 33% of angels its his job after all. Yes he steals ! Probably one of the worst and biggest semilegal businesses in USA. The end is possibly near, BUT there is hope. George W Bush can speak to God. ( So can most of the cristian rite ) They could ask God wich is witch and then we just burn them all. Sorry about the book. You should know one book is all you need and that Hamburgers are wholesome and nutritious.

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By Kafka, Chucky at Jun 19, 2005 22:10 PM
Nah, just the typical love-hatred complex, the-abyss. Don't worry..... we all have been there.

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Re: "Deep Throat" & COINTELPRO

By The-abyss, The-abyss at Jun 19, 2005 21:56 PM
This isn't a blog. Nor is it a place for people concerned about others to discuss issues of relevance - it's a shrine to Chomsky! And the people that come here (always careful to pay their respects by lighting a candle) are actually stupid enough to think they're intelligent. They think by associating with Chomsky, it means they have a bucket load of brains, too. Now I must leave. Don't expect me to light a candle on my way out.

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Re: "Deep Throat" & COINTELPRO

By Blind, Blind at Jun 19, 2005 18:52 PM
This thread has been completely derailed...

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Re: "Deep Throat" & COINTELPRO

By Mmhhii, Adoo at Jun 19, 2005 18:17 PM
the-Abyss wrote: "What right has Chomsky to steal from the poor, to rob from those with very little money." Every right. I do it all the time myself. I give the money to the rich. I'm the mirror image of Robin Hood, you see. "The truth, however, is he's an unprincipled man out to make a quick buck from the pain and suffering of others. " Does he? Didn't know that. How? When? Why? Explain!

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Re: "Deep Throat" & COINTELPRO

By The-abyss, The-abyss at Jun 19, 2005 11:06 AM
Ron writes: "Look, Chomsky's an academic, not a fast food restaurant. I you want to know what something he wrote is about before you buy it, find a review online. It's not like that's difficult or anything." Chomsky is a professor of linguistics, not politics, or world affairs, or economics, or anthropology, or anything else. His field is LINGUISTICS. We are not discussing linguistics. I don't think someone's opinion is worth paying for. "How should medical costs be socialized, Noam?" "Do you think activists will defeat 'globalization'?" "Is the sun going to rise tomorrow?" It's taking the piss, stealing from other people. It's like a town meeting in which people give their opinions about various issues, but Chomsky is an academic, so we must pay him for his opinion. Do you think the rich are interested in Chomsky's books? Chomsky is robbing from the less well-off. You've heard of Linux - developed by programmers donating their time and skills for free. Did these people demand praise and money for their work? They did something they believed in - nothing more! So don't give me this intellectual snobbery about Chomsky being an academic. Either Chomsky is a man of conviction, or he isn't.

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Re: "Deep Throat" & COINTELPRO

By Bostrom, Jay at Jun 19, 2005 05:57 AM
Bloggers, please ignore Abyss. ZNet, please consider removing Abyss' blogging privileges if he continues to abuse others. "Freedom is not the same thing as license," AS Neill. Restricting his privileges would surely limit his freedom, but it would increase the rights of the majority who recognize what an incredible luxury it is that we can sit around and priggishly debate theories and ideas while "real" people are suffering all over the world. Oh, how a Colombian union worker should shame such capriciousness. Who are we struggling for? Abyss? I hope not.

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Re: "Deep Throat" & COINTELPRO

By The-abyss, The-abyss at Jun 19, 2005 04:00 AM
Ron writes: "I you want to know what something he wrote is about before you buy it, find a review online. It's not like that's difficult or anything." -- Ron, can we get you another brain cell? I don't think the one you have is functioning. I ordered that book when I was in a rush; I didn't realise at the time Chomsky published books which were mere interviews. Talk about cheating people!! 99% of books are NOT transcripts of interviews. I made a quick judgement based on a familiar pattern. It's like blaming me for not ducking at an incoming missile as I open the front door to go to work. I didn't expect a bloody missile to be coming my way! I also bought "Manufacturing Consent", despite the expense, because of the rave reviews. There wasn't much in that, either. Some of Chomsky's "work" IS junk food, exactly the sort you find at McDonalds. -- By the way, "Manufacturing Consent" wasn't produced by Chomsky. A film crew merely followed Chomsky about - like he was Madonna! So let's not give Chomsky credit for making a documentary that he didn't actually make; and that would never have been made, had it not been for others.

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Re: "Deep Throat" & COINTELPRO

By The-abyss, The-abyss at Jun 19, 2005 03:27 AM
Chomsky is like Lenin; he wants to be at the top of the hierarchy leading others, into a hell no doubt. Ron writes: "Look, Chomsky's an academic, not a fast food restaurant." Let's see how smart this academic is, shall we? Chomsky said he lives in America because "it's the greatest country in the world": http://www.chomsky.info/debates/20020530.htm On what basis is Chomsky making this judgement? Obviously, it can't be on the basis of the amount of suffering and poverty in the U.S., or on what America has done abroad (millions have been slaughtered as a result of America's foreign policy, and because of the willful ignorance and selfishness of its people). A clue to how Chomsky is making this assessment can be gleaned from his defence of a Frenchman who asserted the Holocaust never happened. Chomsky said he wouldn't want to live in France, where such freedom of expression is quashed. Thus, Chomsky's claim that America is the greatest country in the world is a purely SELFISH assertion. If you were poor in America, you might wish you were a French citizen, so that you didn't have to rot in the gutter. The fact that you can't say the holocaust never happened would hardly be a concern to you.

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Re: "Deep Throat" & COINTELPRO

By The-abyss, The-abyss at Jun 19, 2005 02:30 AM
And for idiots like Graeme who try to boss everyone about on this site - notice how he runs to the defense of Chomksy but to no one else on this board - a simple fact: this isn't Chomsky's blog, he didn't set it up, he doesn't run it, he has nothing to do with it. Chomsky, like a good CEO, lets others do all the work for him, then keeps all the money for himself. When you see him give a speech, just remember Chomsky did nothing to organize that event. Ron writes: "Look, Chomsky's an academic, not a fast food restaurant. I you want to know what something he wrote is about before you buy it, find a review online. It's not like that's difficult or anything." You really are a patronising little shit. What right has Chomsky to steal from the poor, to rob from those with very little money. Chomsky says he wants change, that he's an anarchist, that he cares about society, and that we should listen to him. The truth, however, is he's an unprincipled man out to make a quick buck from the pain and suffering of others.

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Re: "Deep Throat" & COINTELPRO

By Blind, Blind at Jun 18, 2005 20:05 PM
Noam makes a great point. It reminds me of a previous thread where he pointed out media discussion was focusing on the 'oil-for-food' scandal instead of all the people the sanctions killed. It's like a shell game...

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Re: "Deep Throat" & COINTELPRO

By Anjinursey, Cheetah at Jun 18, 2005 15:39 PM
"What's terrifying about some on the left is how all someone has to do is say the right words, and suddenly they're the most perfect human being that ever lived." Gee, abyss, sounds as if you could be talking about how some on the right have been guilty of the same thing over a certain person, whose name I won't mention, but his initials are GEORGE W BUSH!

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Re: "Deep Throat" & COINTELPRO

By The-abyss, The-abyss at Jun 18, 2005 08:11 AM
Also, I feel robbed after buying “Propaganda and the Public Mind” online. I thought it was a book on that topic, but it turned out to be Chomsky's friend, David Barsamian (who also happens to sell Chomsky's tapes, and is - or was! - Chomsky's agent - a nice cosy arrangement!), asking Chomsky questions. Chomsky is being milked for all he's worth by a group of “yes” men. What's next? A tape of Chomsky singing in the bath? That book should have been called, “An Interview with Chomsky by a close friend, Volume X”. Then people would have known what they were buying. Seems Chomsky is not averse to dirty marketing tricks of the kind used by corporations – those private tyrannies he condemns. And before someone says Chomsky has no control over the title of his books - blame the publisher! – if that is the case, Chomsky should have written down his thoughts (which were hardly original), not let his friend and agent interview him. I didn't want a transcript of a bland interview. Don't waste time attacking me, anyone. I'm no longer reading posts on this so-called “blog”. If it's good enough for Chomsky to be rude and arrogant, and full of his own self-importance, it's good enough for me.

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Re: "Deep Throat" & COINTELPRO

By Paymane, Paymun at Jun 18, 2005 07:52 AM
What is interesting for me is that, the real dynamics power is quite the same in industrialized coutries and in third world countries. About 7 years ago news broke in Iran of a series of murders that targeted political desedents. In an unexpected turn of events, It was actually publicized that agents from the Ministry of Intelligence were culprit. The genius of American system is that, with systematic propaganda, It has created an atmosphere which makes unfathomable for average citizen to contemplate that US government could in principle go to extereme measures to preserve interests of certain groups. Not that US gov has actually done so!! They don't need it, since the Capitalistic system has the vast majority of people on its side. But the situation is such that, if they would want to do so, they certainly can. Even if news breaks out, NO ONE WOULD BLEIEVE IT. It has been rendered unthinkable, therefore they have virual immunity, unless they really screw up.

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Re: "Deep Throat" & COINTELPRO

By The-abyss, The-abyss at Jun 18, 2005 07:49 AM
What's terrifying about some on the left is how all someone has to do is say the right words, and suddenly they're the most perfect human being that ever lived. A group of students were protesting Chomsky speaking at their university, saying it was a waste of the student union's money. However, it's up to Chomsky to disclose his earnings, not for me to find them out, which I cannot do, anyway. Chomsky wants transparency in government, then what's wrong with transparency from those on the left? What's wrong with Zmag, for example, disclosing its financial statements on its Web site? Set an example, Chomsky, and tell your cronies to do likewise. At the end of “Propaganda and the Public Mind”, there is an advertisement for Noam Chomsky talks on cassette tape. Buy “a six-pack of Chomsky” for just $60, a “twelve-pack” for an incredibly low $112, or all 23 tapes for a bargain basement price of $200. A six-pack of Chomsky? Sounds like a packet of condoms, doesn't it? “A six-pack of Chomsky - for when you feel the urge to screw people”. What's wrong with Chomsky selling his recordings at cost? His speeches aren't worth paying for. He's not giving me anything I haven't read about elsewhere.

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Re: "Deep Throat" & COINTELPRO

By Bauerly, Mtbrad at Jun 17, 2005 20:09 PM
" It was formally terminated after it was exposed in the courts in the early 70s." Formally, yes, covertly no. Redwoods earth first! was targeted by COINTEL pro in the '80's. Documents to such have been revealed. Who knows what other movements have been infiltrated by this program. As for the media obsession with watergate, it is because it is now a historical event, unlike the malfeasance concerning WMD and Iraq war justification. Watergate did not put American lives at risk, only "American democrac". I have also been surprised by the media attention given to the "Downingstreet memo". Evidence that the Admin. was planning to go into Iraq is quite ubiquitous. Alot of it before the 2000 election.

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Re: "Deep Throat" & COINTELPRO

By Goffchile, Goffchile at Jun 17, 2005 18:03 PM
What passes as a "scandal" in the US media is the true scandal. The media never fails to sensationalize the trivial and to trivialize the sensational. The Deep Throat revelation is a classic example. Bob Woodward scrambles to finish another book on Watergate, the media debates whether Felt is a "hero," and meanwhile casualties in Iraq grow higher with each passing month and when a local soldier dies it is relagated to a human interest story--not intended to generate a debate about why we are there, what the true costs of the war are, etc. Which was more scandalous? Cointelpro? Pinochet? Carpet bombing Cambodia? or Bob Woodward meeting a disgruntled FBI agent in a garage?

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