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"Doctrinal Fiction's" of Free Trade, Debt and Deficit's

By Noam Chomsky at Apr 13, 2005

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…The US multinational establishment never favored free-trade. The economy relies very heavily on a dynamic state sector to socialize cost and risk, a radical violation of market principles. The Uruguay Round (WTO) rules crucially include extreme protectionist elements designed to guarantee monopoly-pricing power to multinationals, in radical violation of free trade theory (the excuses that are given, in terms of R&D, quickly collapse under analysis). The Reagan administration virtually doubled import restrictions, violating free-trade mechanisms far more than Europe, according the analysis of the GATT secretariat. And on, and on. The "trade deficit" is partly a doctrinal construction, for reasons that have long been known. The Wall Street Journal a few days ago reported an analysis by McKinsey and Co pointing out that if one counts exports of US corporations operating overseas as part of US exports (which makes sense, if we -take the country to be the private economy that runs it), then the trade deficit declines significantly. US companies make a mint exporting from China, just as Walmart is enriched by importing from slave labor producers in the brutally repressive state (they are a big player in the US economy, and are not going to want a protective tariff any more than corporations exporting from the Chinese platform will). Even what's called "trade" is to a large extent a doctrinal fiction. Why is it "export" and "import" when GM sends parts to Mexico for assembly and then brings them back to New York to sell, all transactions internal to a totalitarian command economy, but not when it does the same from Indiana to Illinois to New York? No one seriously called what was happening internal to the Soviet system "trade," though it crossed national boundaries. As to how much foreign debt can be sustained, it's anybody's guess. Just as no one really knows what would happen if Japanese, Chinese, and other banks reduced their exposure to dollars and called in their debts. As for debasing tax payers, that's highly misleading. The rich are getting a free ride. And as far as wage-earners are concerned, the last 25 years have been a remarkable period in American economic history, with real wages pretty much stagnating or even declining for the majority of the work force, who are keeping incomes up only by close to the highest work load in the industrial world. That the Bush administration is playing with fire is pretty clear. And no one can tell what the consequences will be. The same is true in other dimensions: nuclear war, environmental catastrophe, etc. But their policies are rational, on the assumption that what matters is shining the boots of the rich today, while transferring costs to everyone else and to future generations.

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tercüme

By Cevirihizmetleri, Tercüme at Jun 29, 2007 16:20 PM
As to how much foreign debt can be sustained, it's anybody's guess. Just as no one really knows what would happen if Japanese, Chinese, and other banks reduced their exposure to dollars and called in their debts. As for debasing tax payers, that's highly misleading. The rich are getting a free ride. And as far as wage-earners are concerned, the last 25 years have been a remarkable period in American economic history, with real wages pretty much stagnating or even declining for the majority of the work force, who are keeping incomes up only by close to the highest work load in the industrial world. tercüme ingilizce tercüme elektrik emlak çeviri tercüman link ekle kiral?k ev

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Re: "Doctrinal Fiction's" of Free Trade, Debt and Deficit's

By Sef101960, Yellow at Jun 22, 2005 20:18 PM
The real core dynamic of economic globalization is Foreign Direct Investment. The transnational corporate investment studies begun by UNCTAD in the early 1990s established at that time that over one-third of international trade was between and within firms not countries! In other words "trade" had become increasingly foreign investment related! Trade is being somewhat eclipsed in the old sense by a restructuring of the global division of labor along the lines of TNC dominated, vertically-integrated production and supply chains in an increasingly concetrated world economy. The most recent UNCTAD figures show that trade is dominated by 69,000 TNCs and their 690,000 foreign subsidiaries! TNCs are proliferating even as the global economy concentrates and, to an extent centralizes based on the investment strategies of the top firms. One estimate asserts that the top 100 TNCs control one-quarter of the world's productive assets by market value. The world economy is about the concetration of productive capital on a global scale not "free trade". The very poorest counties race to the bottom by offering ever cheaper labor. With the sole exception of China, they may lose out in the end.

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Re: "Doctrinal Fiction's" of Free Trade, Debt and Deficit's

By K, Mr at Apr 30, 2005 04:57 AM
Yes death is a political reality. However legitimate processes exist in societies which could alleviate sufferage in every region on the planet. Seedy, greedy neo-con double speaking hominids stalk this planet stealing from the poor. Legal avenues have reached a limit wherein lies the legal means of exploitation against the underclass of all societies. Macro-sized exploitation from every legitimate government on this planet. It's sick and when is it going to stop? My comet should have missed this sorry place and landed on the next habitable planet instead.

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Re: "Doctrinal Fiction's" of Free Trade, Debt and Deficit's

By Griffiths68, Hawkstone at Apr 27, 2005 23:18 PM
Roger the Anti-Chomsky, have you considered that the arguments you make are similar to those of the mainstream media? Chomsky, as well as many of the people here, are fully conversant with your arguments. They have already studied and rejected those arguments.

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Re: "Doctrinal Fiction's" of Free Trade, Debt and Deficit's

By The, Roger at Apr 27, 2005 19:27 PM
"The US is by far the world's largest arms exporter. " The US is also the most powerful country in the world, biggest economy..etc And how does this change the fact that the good the US does in the world far outweighs the bad? Look at women's rights in the US. Look at gay rights in the US and then compare that to communist countries like Cuba where they were repressed and even sent to concentration camps at one point. Where is the Left outrage over that? Where is the ZMag story about that? The Left likes to say that America is a racist country yet MILLIONS upon MILLIONS of persons of color from all over the world would literally risk death to enter this country and be proud to live here. The US fought a Cold War in which the US needed to sometimes temporarily support militaristic regimes in order to prevent the (greater evil) of communist takeover. Look at Chile - Sure, Pinochet was a thug. But compare that to Castro. Something Chomsky will apparently never do. Pinochet - 3000 people killed. In power for 15 years, then had a referedum,he lost and then resigned from office. Democracy in Chile ensued and now there is a Socialist President. Castro - 60,000 people killed. In power for 45 years and counting. No referendum. No democracy. The US supported Pinochet temporarily, while pressuring him to commit to democracy (as he later did) in order to prevent the greater evil, a Castro-like dictatorship (whose results you can look at from the numbers provided above)

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Re: "Doctrinal Fiction's" of Free Trade, Debt and Deficit's

By The, Roger at Apr 27, 2005 18:58 PM
"Chavez lost one by military takeover how many more central and southern American nations can hold?" Hugo Chavez is a gangster who has been critisized for violating human rights by Amnesty International and who has tried to overthrow a democratically elected government himself in the early 90s. Chavez was a coup leader before he became President so it seems amazingly hypocritcal for Chavez or his supporters to complain when a coup happens to him. Of course, if we were talking about a country or a leader Chomsky or the Left dislikes, then we would hear this mentioned ad-nauseum, but because it is not, we don't hear it at all. This is but one example of the kind of extreme one-sidedness that is riddled within all of Chomsky's works. "U.S. Baby Death Rates Exceeds Cuba, Beijing" That's interesting...2 totalitarian corrupt communist regimes, I'm sure they wouldn't do a thing like play with the numbers for propagandistic purposes, right? Nope! It's Red China and Castro's Cuba! Those two honest chaps! Why, everything they say must be believed - hook, line and sinker. The US on the other hand...

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Re: "Doctrinal Fiction's" of Free Trade, Debt and Deficit's

By Jr_xyz, Jr2xyz at Apr 22, 2005 14:37 PM
Well said that man!

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Re: "Doctrinal Fiction's" of Free Trade, Debt and Deficit's

By Bauerly, Mtbrad at Apr 17, 2005 18:04 PM
To attempt to get us back on the topic of trade, the insuing push for CAFTA will see the power of the elites through the obedient media. I am waiting for the stories to start flooding in about how good this will be for the people of Central America, complete with popagandised studies and mis-information. The role of the left in the next few years will be to continue to expose the fallacy of their claims. This will not be an easy task. I have been discouraged recently by the splintering of the left. Solidarity is the key to any movement. We must stand together to stop the expansion of the empire of capital. Judging by the comments of the anti-chomsky, we have our work cut out for us. I experiance this form of state induced false belief system on a daily basis. It is hard to break through, requireing tact, patience and perseverance.

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By K, Mr at Apr 16, 2005 22:00 PM
Well we all know which side the Bush regime will side on. They openly support dictatorships. Equador is going to be ruled by force and backed by Washington. Radical politics aside this is one more 'litmus test' for the neo-con agenda. It will be interesting to see the developments in this country in the coming years. Text book American takeover. Chavez lost one by military takeover how many more central and southern American nations can hold? Chavez must act!!

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Re: "Doctrinal Fiction's" of Free Trade, Debt and Deficit's

By Hughen, Matthew at Apr 16, 2005 19:41 PM
if you read enough of the mass media, you might encounter a nugget of truth that sneaks in. CNN reporting on Ecuadors current situation: (http://www.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/americas/04/16/ecuador.emergency.ap/index.html) Gutierrez was elected president in November 2002 after campaigning as a populist, anti-corruption reformer. But his left-leaning constituency soon fell apart after he instituted austerity measures, including cutting subsidies on food and cooking fuel, to satisfy lenders like the International Monetary Fund. i thought this was appropriate to our discussion of "Free Market" economics.

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Re: "Doctrinal Fiction's" of Free Trade, Debt and Deficit's

By K, Mr at Apr 16, 2005 00:34 AM
I quote 'The same is true in other dimensions' no not to use up my precious 'characters' on this blog but i'm observing the 'dimensions' and all i see is talk. Greed one 'dimension'. Did'nt Kant talk about this? 'Helping' the planet while raping it? Double lying elite power destroying the planet and too powerful to stop. The neo-con wheels are spinning and it's too late to stop it. The whole planets elite power are aligned and working as one. What i see is global exploitation depending upon region and society. 'cultural poverty' compared to 'absolute poverty' is relative to the amount of abuse and indoctrination the society has endured. Each hominid walking on this planet today has a duty. So far i've learnt that it's my duty to look out for #1 so why would we expect the neo-con power elite to do any different? Keep watching that television. Let the brainwashing continue.

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Re: "Doctrinal Fiction's" of Free Trade, Debt and Deficit's

By Matrix4, Appleman at Apr 14, 2005 22:14 PM
Roger the Anti Chomsky: the only "good" the US does is for the elites that run the government and the multinational corporations that control them and this country. Any real "good" that is done is purely coincidental (or in some cases, because of tremendous amounts of public pressure) not because of any empathy or design on their part. Again I repeat to you: learn the facts and get some real history; not what you've been taught in the docrtination history classes in your school that pass for "education."

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Re: "Doctrinal Fiction's" of Free Trade, Debt and Deficit's

By Joshkan1, Dj_menno at Apr 14, 2005 20:31 PM
Noheroes...Roger is apparently just a run of the mill nut. With the help of google you can see that he loves to play online "sim gov't" games and does quite poorly. After reading some of his babble on those websites, I am quite sure even Whore-o-shitz wouldn't have him.

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Re: "Doctrinal Fiction's" of Free Trade, Debt and Deficit's

By Rastafarianrobot, Noherosnomasters at Apr 14, 2005 19:53 PM
Roger the anti-chomsky, I have to wonder if you haven't been sent over here by David Horowitz, because your phrase "even palestine" more than echos his radical reactionary zionism.

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Re: "Doctrinal Fiction's" of Free Trade, Debt and Deficit's

By The, Roger at Apr 14, 2005 03:23 AM
Sigh. This is just another example. Of course the US has done some bad things and has made some mistakes, just like any other country. The point is, not to compare the US to some utopian vision, but to compare it to other countries in the world. The truth is, that when you do that, the US comes out of it smelling like a rose. It is also important to be balanced. Chomsky shows absolutely no balance. The US gives more foreign aid than any other country in the world, we give invaluable medical/health equipment all over the world, even in places like Palestine. Sure we made mistakes, but honest and fair Americans understand that we live in the greatest country in the world and that the good we do, far far far outweighs any of the bad.

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Re: "Doctrinal Fiction's" of Free Trade, Debt and Deficit's

By Bauerly, Mtbrad at Apr 14, 2005 02:53 AM
"Taking advantage of weaker nations is wrong, and I'm sure it occurs. I doubt that any thoughtful person in the US gov approves of it, since it makes the world less prosperous and more dangerous." There are no thoughtful people in the US gov! That is Chomsky's point, that if you look at it logically it makes no sense. We preach "free" this and that, but capitalism is the exact opposite of "free" anything. I also disagree that the goal of the neocons is to make the world more prosperous and less dangerous. I think the opposite is true, by destabilizing regions that we wish to gain influence over, they create instability and then come in to offer "protection". It is pure mafia stuff. If they wanted poor nations to become more prosperous they would promote educational funding, when in fact they do the opposite.

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Re: "Doctrinal Fiction's" of Free Trade, Debt and Deficit's

By Griffiths68, Hawkstone at Apr 14, 2005 00:55 AM
But what when its the people at the very top that are the fanatics? John Bolton? John Negroponte? Paul Wolfowitz? That's the very point. All the things you mention that no sane American would want are infact being carried out by the US government, in full knowledge of their consequences. The US government then spends millions of dollars distracting people from the resultant discrepancy between words and actions.

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Re: "Doctrinal Fiction's" of Free Trade, Debt and Deficit's

By Yurallnuts, Realpc at Apr 14, 2005 00:02 AM
The neocons are not all fanatics -- some are intelligent and thoughtful, and want poor nations to become prosperous. That is the best strategy for controlling communism and radical Islam. Ripping off the world is not what sane Americans want. Yes there are plenty who are insane and want to grab as much power as they can at any cost. There will always be people like that, under any ideology.

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Re: "Doctrinal Fiction's" of Free Trade, Debt and Deficit's

By Yurallnuts, Realpc at Apr 13, 2005 23:58 PM
Taking advantage of weaker nations is wrong, and I'm sure it occurs. I doubt that any thoughtful person in the US gov approves of it, since it makes the world less prosperous and more dangerous. It is wrong to accuse everyone in power in the US of wanting to rip off the third world, although of course there are crooks in any organization. World poverty harms us and threatens our survival. US citizens are not all dumb (although of course no one can possibly know everything and time is limited), and US leaders are not all crooks. World peace depends on world prosperity and everyone knows it now.

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Re: "Doctrinal Fiction's" of Free Trade, Debt and Deficit's

By Gammon101, Bwong at Apr 13, 2005 22:57 PM
Secondly, the U.S consistently bullies weaker countries to submit to the free trade, free market doctrines which it itself does not believe in and would never accept,--and apparantly neither would you. For example,IMF loans come with the string that the recipients must under take "free market" reforms by completely opening up their economies for foreign take over, massive privatizations, elimination of state subsidies of any kind. Similar stipulations also appear in multilateral trade talks(even though the U.S itself never feel compelled to be bound by them as long as it is inconvenient) Incidentally, "state subsidies" include health, education and public utilities for neo liberal economists who dominate financial institutions and "trade" talks. The sham "free market" doctrine more than a harmless fairy tale, it is used in a very real way as an ideological weapon against the weak,--both domestically and internationally.

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Re: "Doctrinal Fiction's" of Free Trade, Debt and Deficit's

By Gammon101, Bwong at Apr 13, 2005 22:53 PM
"No one claims the US economy is a strictly free market. Everyone knows it combines capitalism with socialism, just like all the western democracies" Obviously you're missing the point, which you think is trivial. First of all, I don't see how using state power to socialize costs and risks for corporations consitutes "socialism", except in a rhetorical sort of way. The point is that the tax payers contribute to build the infrastructures, conduct the basic researches, clean up the mess as a result of economical activities and in general carry the costs and risks associate with the non profitable parts of economical growth while private companies reap all the benefits and glory. This point is hardly well understood, considering the fact that most people still think the private sector is the key engine of growth through activities such as undertaking risks, investing capital ,creating jobs , funding R&D, etc, while the government plays only a parasitic role. Some commentators sound almost as if corporations are performing an act of charity by "creating jobs" and "investing" and that we should all be grateful. Such perceptions have important implications in policy making.For example, businesses are able to claim a certain moral high ground(rather shamelessly) in demanding tax concessions and write offs. (to be continued)

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Re: "Doctrinal Fiction's" of Free Trade, Debt and Deficit's

By Joshkan1, Dj_menno at Apr 13, 2005 22:40 PM
Realpc, I believe to some extent, Chomsky's point is in fact tha language. We have trade agreements in place with many partners, be it bi or multilateral. The picture painted by the US administration(s) is that we are pure capitalists, free traders. "Let the marketplace figure things out." You may understand this not to be true, but clearly you are a more discerning thinker than Joe Bag O' Donuts. It is imperative that an implicit feeling or attitude exists that suggests that US trade policy is pure and just. As are the rest of the US's international endeavors. Words or ideas like "freedom, democracy, free trade" they all serve to construct a highly managed and carefully developed set of propaganda tools that allow Joe Bag O Donuts to consume slave produced goods at Wal-Mart that are rang up by a "part-time" employee that enjoys no benefits and works 50 hours a week for $7.00/hour. So it is a radical violation when seen in the context of the US propaganda machine. I believe that from reading lots of Chomsky and hopefully, to some degree understanding the context in which he frames this type of discussion.

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Re: "Doctrinal Fiction's" of Free Trade, Debt and Deficit's

By Steele, Mistersteele at Apr 13, 2005 22:20 PM
Free trade for our export 'dumping', and restricted trade for our trading partners. Ask yourself this: when was the last time you bought a candy bar, produced in the Ivory Coast?

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Re: "Doctrinal Fiction's" of Free Trade, Debt and Deficit's

By Yurallnuts, Realpc at Apr 13, 2005 22:19 PM
But no one advocates unrestricted free trade. It's weird to call it a radical violation. This is one more example of Chomsky's creative misuse of language.

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Re: "Doctrinal Fiction's" of Free Trade, Debt and Deficit's

By Mjdiak, Mjd at Apr 13, 2005 22:16 PM
realpc, I don't mean to correct, but your understand of your cited quote seems to be off. Your cited quote refers to his previous senctence - 'The US multinational establishment never favored free-trade.' - not to 'capitalism' or 'american priciples'. How our economy is run is very contradictory to how we tell others to run theirs (and how our economist tell our general public how we run ours), ie 'free trade', is what he ment. So in his word, "a radical violation".

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Re: "Doctrinal Fiction's" of Free Trade, Debt and Deficit's

By Yurallnuts, Realpc at Apr 13, 2005 21:45 PM
"The economy relies very heavily on a dynamic state sector to socialize cost and risk, a radical violation of market principles." I understand this is not his main point, but I want to point out how illogical the statement is. No one claims the US economy is a strictly free market. Everyone knows it combines capitalism with socialism, just like all the western democracies. This has been true at least since FDR, and Chomsky knows it. He uses the term "radical violation" to make it sound like violating strict capitalism is a bad thing or somehow at odds with American principles.

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Re: "Doctrinal Fiction's" of Free Trade, Debt and Deficit's

By Steele, Mistersteele at Apr 13, 2005 20:39 PM
This is correct; no major state is really engaged in so-called free trade. The United States demands more markets for it's favored industries; witness the upcoming DR-CAFTA "free trade" talks. Heavily subsidized agricultural products from the U.S. will flood the Central American region, destroying the local Central American markets, and contributing to the demise of the small farmer in these developing regions.

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