David Monniaux:

Perfectly clear.  And not "cavalier" in the least.

Throughout, I've been intrigued by the history of Wikipedia's entry for this particular Chicago Sun-Times's sports columnist, and how the problems that afflicted this single entry—in which its ostensible subject matter also was the target of a smear campaign—or what Jim Wales elsewhere called an "attack site"—extrapolate to Wikipedia's open-source, anyone-can-edit philosophy as a whole, wherein all entries in principle remain open to infinitely many revisions.

Repeatedly, the question has been raised as to how Wikipedia can remain faithful to its core philosophy without the encyclopedia succumbing not just to honest errors, but deliberate and malicious falsehoods of every stripe.

In my opinion, the most effective way for Wikipedia to counter the threat of false information deliberately posted to its entries lies less along the path proposed by Larry Sanger et al.'s Citizendium Project, with its hierarchical notion of “expertise” among its editors (though this will help in other important respects—including algorithmics, ethnology, and the American Revolution), but instead along some kind of real-person path.  We can't see into the hearts of Wikipedia's infinitely many contributors.  But Wikipedia might be able to restrict the contributors who post material to its entries to their real identities—or not at all.  Why not insist that the truth-claims made via Wikipedia's entries be affixed to the flesh-and-bone people who make them, rather than to anonymous or fake Internet identities?  Without some kind of real-person constraint (similar, perhaps, to the one person, one vote rule—though this rule also is violated routinely via the disparities of resources that certain persons command), I'm afraid that Wikipedia (and each of its competitors and successors) will be left a breeding ground for every form of deception the human mind can imagine.

David Peterson
Chicago, USA    

I discovered that I was cited by name on this blog through a Google search, and I feel that I should explained what happened from my point of view.

At the time, the Wikimedia Foundation had a backlog of emails to process and volunteers were called in. There was a complaint telling us that we had an article that was just mere bashing.

Quick examination of the article and history showed a totally disproportionate amount of criticism, allegations and so on, with people steadfastly pushing for the insertion of such content.

One problem in such cases is to get rid of the undesirable content while not getting rid of desirable additions. This tends to be time-consuming. I had no time for keeping watch on this article. The obvious choice was to delete. To answer one question asked in the post, we do have private archives of delete contents, so if some Wikipedia administrator was sufficiently motivated, he or she could undelete selectively.

This may sound like a cavalier approach, but we're really short on volunteers to process such disputes. In addition,Mr Mariotti's bio is not, in my humble opinion, a major encyclopedic topic. That is, I think we can do without his biography without this loss being perceived as a major lack (compared to, say, not having article on algorithmics, ethnology or the American revolution).

 

I don't know David, Mariotti seem to have a very fearless enemy, not only the hate is there, but in my opinion mariotti is being stalked. Not only the stalker is mentally deranged but you could suggest that this person also feel being sexually inadequate or has erectile problems.. this could be due to anti-depressants. this person seem to be materializing (transfer) his hate of himself on an another person (in this instance mariotti) for whom it is homosexually attracted.. ASS PICKER, Dead body, 70 stab wounds( penetrations),black man, about 6 foot 3 or 4, weighing about 210 lbs, and rather muscular (desire to be dominated), pulled on my clothes to cover up my incredibly hot body and rushed over there (narcissistic tendencies and lonelyness)... etc.. relates to some problematic anal complex..david there is more to it than simple hate speech.. Has mariotti lost his job? mariotti's sport writing appears fair and non-critical.

Cyrano:

Thanks for sharing your examples.  (Apologies, also, for the delay in responding. It was only today that I noticed someone had posted a comment.)

My example may see trivial.  And relative to many other case, it certainly is.  But hate speech becomes a serious phenomenon when it generates or is itself generated as part of a bandwagon effect.  And even here, the case of the Chicago Sun-Times sports columnist has been exemplary.  (For some helpful background, see “Jay the Joke Isn't Funny Anymore,” Michael Miner, Chicago Reader, August 18; as well as "Press Boxing," Dirk Johnson, Chicago Magazine, October, 2006.  Though in this latter piece, the phenomenon is almost completely missed.) 

Let me take the opportunity to reproduce in full here a truly sick commentary.  (See "The Strange Death of Joseph Egan," as posted to the nonce-website titled Chicago Sports Fans Unite, by one "NY-Ex Chicagoan"--Internet anonymity run amok.)

Keep in mind that "Joseph Egan" is a real person living in the Chicago area. "CPK" is a term of derogation for another real person.  And if you have the time, be sure to read the Comments posted beneath this particular entry.  Not one single comment raises an objection to the material that evoked it.  One has to wonder where all of these sick people live.  But they are enabled in this inward-coiling dynamic of hate by the kind of anonymity that the Internet provides.  It's all just a lot of good clean American fun.  You know.  Like Abu Ghraib.  

The Strange Death of Joseph Egan 

As you are probably aware, Joseph Egan of Franklin Park died recently.

It is not truthful to say that he will be missed, but his death does give us a reason to reflect on our own lives, and to question ourselves what we are doing with the days we have left. In examining the peculiar circumstances of his rather timely demise, we can draw lessons from it and enrich our own existence.

So, to further that cause, I have taken it upon myself to use my investigative powers and resources in order to present you, dear reader, with a factual and hopefully thought-inspiring account of Joseph Egan's murder. Now, the superficial particulars are well known by now. Surely you have seen it on the news; it has made national headlines as of late, and while the murderer has not been apprehended yet, authorities report several promising leads. Now, in case you have been living under a rock for the last week, I will describe to you the well known facts as they are presently known by the general public. Subsequent to this, I will report the finer, more horrible details as I have come to know them through various interviews and eavesdropping that I have conducted lately.

The particulars are as follows: Joseph Egan was found dead in a hotel in Schaumburg, Illinois that morning at roughly 3am. He had numerous stab wounds over his entire body, but judging from the lack of bloodflow from many of the wounds, it was estimated that he was stabbed over 70 times after he was already dead, leading some to believe that it was done by a person that Egan knew, a person who hated him intensely. His throat was slashed, his eyes were cut out, and the fingers on his right hand were severed. It was a very gruesome scene, discovered by an unfortunate woman by the name of Mary Brown. Although she was interviewed extensively by the police, her testimony has not yet been made public. At this time, it has been rumored that she worked at the hotel as a cleaning person. However, no one has bothered to ask why a cleaning lady would be opening the door to a room at 3am. The body was autopsied and the findings were conclusive: Egan had been stabbed 86 times by an unknown sharp instrument, and then was mutilated further, using other devices. But there exists one piece of evidence that has made this even more sensationalistic, that has conspired to make this into a national, perhaps even an international story: on the wall directly above the bed he was found in were scrawled the words CPK, YOU ARE NEXT. I AM COMING, SAYETH THE ASS PICKER. This message apparently written in Egan's blood by his killer has shocked the nation.

Much effort has been made to find out who or what the initials C.P.K. refer to. The leading theory at this time is that it refers to the California Pizza Kitchen, but no one can figure out why this fine establishment should come under the murderous rage of this lunatic. Other efforts have been made, especially by counter-terrorist units and international assassin profilers in the CIA and FBI, to find out who this Ass Picker is. Of course, the results of that inquiry have not yet been made public. However, using my resources and tapping several contacts within the Department of Homeland Security, I have ascertained that the Ass Picker is unknown by his real name, but he has signed his name to several very high profile assassinations in the last ten years. He has scrawled his name in blood on the body of several high ranking officials in the nations of Burma, Zambia, and Italy. He is thought to be one of the most elusive assassins at the present time, deadlier than the dreaded Carlos.

Additionally, it is thought that he is an American citizen. The reason for this is because certain underground reports have described a meeting between the Ass Picker and members of Al-Qaeda. The muslim extremists have reportedly tried to hire him to commit assassinations in the United States and Britain, and during that meeting, the Ass Picker killed three of the terrorists and told the other one to run “your ass back to Bin Ladin and tell him I don't work for evil shit like you.”

Some reports have the Ass Picker as a black man, about 6 foot 3 or 4, weighing about 210 lbs, and rather muscular. And always carrying an ice pick in a sheath at this belt. This was all that the informant could tell me.

However, I was able to track down the woman who discovered the body, Mary Brown. I went to her home and was immediately invited in. Basically, what she told me was that she had known of Egan under a screen name that he used, “Kibuttfucker” on a certain website devoted to bashing and smearing a local Chicago columnist. She had posted quite a few times to this blog, and was generally well-received and respected by most of the male community that regularly visited the site. However, she had had great trouble over Egan. He had posted under various aliases and expressed a desire to rape another poster's 7 year old triplets, had said that he liked the way certain parts of Mary's body looked when she played golf (this suggested that Egan had probably stalked her), and shortly before his death, he had gotten the nasty habit of being racially offensive to some of the other regulars.

When I asked her how she had come upon his body, this is what she told me. “It was the weirdest thing,” she said, looking at me with wide eyes. “I got a phone call from a guy, a really deep voice, at about 2am that morning, saying he had kidnapped my dog!”

“Your dog,” I said.

“Yes,” she replied, nodding ferociously. “And so I immediately got up and looked around for Smuckers, but he was gone! It was the strangest thing!”

I asked her what she did next. “Well, I got back on the phone and just asked them, ‘what do you want?'. "

They told me to go to the Hampton Inn in Schaumburg, and to open room 115 with a key that was in my mailbox, and that Smuckers would be there. So I hurriedly pulled on my clothes to cover up my incredibly hot body and rushed over there.”

At this, I would have though her rather vain, but she did have a rather hot body indeed. So, she rushes over to the hotel and finds Egan's body. And her dog? The poor thing had been drugged and was sleeping contentedly in her attic. The next morning he went nuts barking and was let out. However, it is not known how or why someone broke into her home in the middle of the night and went through this whole production to get her to find the body at that particular time. One would assume that it would eventually be found anyway.

One official believes that the Ass Picker is a very meticulous man, a perfectionist, and he wanted the words in blood fresh and red when they were found. Had they been left for days, it would have been rather brown and rusty-colored, and not the vibrant red that would photograph better. This seems reasonable. When I asked Mary Brown if she suspected any particular individual on the phone, she said she didn't know. But that the man used a certain familiar word, but she couldn't place it. I asked her what the word was, and she said with a puzzled look, “Well, he called me a douchebag.” Wondering aloud, she added, “Now, where have I heard that before, recently?” In speaking with other various witnesses, I didn't gather much more than what I have told you.

But one name that kept coming up was one T. Briggs. I didn't know who it was until I got a call from him one evening, while I was eating dinner with my wife. It was a heavy, strong voice. And he said something that made chills run up my spine.

He said, “Mr. Anderson, this is Tyrone Briggs. I hope that lasagna you're eating is tasty.” I turned my head to look out the window, but saw nothing in the shadows. “Who is this,” I demanded.

All he said was, “Leave it alone, Mr. Anderson. If you don't, he will have the Ass Picker come for you next.”

I was dumbfounded.

“Who is ‘he'? Who are we talking about?”

He laughed and said, “He is the one who has come from the light to the dark. He is one who has finally let the hate envelope him.” And then he hung up.

I must admit that freaked me out. I officially got off the story. The thought of someone named the Ass Picker, sent by some powerful person with unlimited reach, coming after my family, is enough to scare me straight.

But I have this one nagging thought: After reviewing all the facts that I have, there are two possibilities for the identity of the one who sent the Ass Picker. One clue is the use of the word “Douchebag.” That was really only used by the one of the creators of the blog that Egan frequented. The other, the description of someone going to the dark side. I don't know who that could possibly be, but I'm not going to find out any further. I'm done. And I knew I said that there were lessons to be learned from this, but there really aren't any. I just said that to hook you into reading this whole thing.

But one lesson that I have learned is this: Stay away from the Ass Picker.

And CPK, whoever you are, be afraid. Be very afraid.

 

David Peterson
Chicago, USA

 

David, you stupid.

david I fell on an excellent example of hate speech in the toronto sun. the author is a pseudo professor of political science at the university western of western ontario. Mr Mansur, I would comment on your essay published in Toronto Sun and titled Why Muslim Kills Muslims I think your essay contribute to hatre towards arabs and that your essay is somewhat apologitical of zionism war crimes.. actually you could be labeled an apologist of the illegal war, and US war crime with the occupatioin of Iraq. for the past 3 years the world had been submitted to unequalled barbarism and the media have done nothing less than toing the party line.. for these reasons your essay was posted as an example of article contributing to hate and racism. http://blogs.zmag.org/node/2722 you wrote: WHY MUSLIM kill MUSLIMS.. In the marketplace of ideas, the Arab-Muslim world is presently a relatively barren region.

I don't know , muslim and arabs have different ideas you have but the way you generalized seem to point that you are a bigot.. if you arent racist it does denote that all these years in school were in vain.. ( you arent an aventurous thinker) see JD casten comments that adress your rather limited essay:

ttp://blogs.zmag.org/node/2709#comment

Thinking is a perilous venture where dictators, demagogues and mob passion rule.

The present american administration is closer to fascism than muslim are in fact read this article may be it will help you understand fascim: the US is doing a FREE FALL into NEW ADVANCED FORM OF FASCISMS. Historically, Powerful US corporations SPONSORED euro fascism( helped Hitler with his ascension to power) mainly because this ascension to power was slowing down socialism. In fact the US sponsored every dictator except castro, all of therm including Hussin, marco, duvalier , pinochet. (see animation below on the US link to fascism

http://www.takebackthemedia.com/bushnonazi.html

The rise Hitler, Mussolini) was more like the infancy of fascism with puppet front speakers- screamers. fascism does not need dictactor anymore , mainly because the media control the public opinion and the votes.. It can hide under flawed democratic process such as the US. Once a Corporations get one of their pawn elected, it can impose their will and exploit the populations . Unfortunately the BRAVES in the US have been replaced with warmongerers, occupiers, exploiters,murderers, baby killers, racists and ignorants.. (republicans and a few liberals..and their pseudo-ideological war in Iraq..) see Bush hitlerian ideology below

http://www.tbtmradio.com/geeklog/public_html/staticpages/index.php?page=20040606194007963

And so, there is not such thing as a TRUE AMERICAN anymore ; there's BP, Esso Imperial, Shell , Exxon and other profit making WAR Corporations, but the AMERICAN PEOPLE itself do not exist, it has been buried long ago with its CONscience by its own ignorance and THEIR TVs.. Sources : http://blogs.zmag.org

mr mansur your continued: But when it comes to maiming and killing, the Arab-Muslim world holds a place of prominence. In particular, the ancient land between two rivers, now Iraq, has proven to be greatly fertile as killing fields.

Iraq was relatively peaceful before the imposed civil war on Iraqis by the US. In fact the world could had been a better place with hussein than with bush. what bush did is make the world a worst place to leave.. he actually accelerated an arm race because small countries felt threatened..

With complete lunacy your wrote: The most famous massacre in Muslim history by armed might of the state took place at Karbala on the banks of the Euphrates in 680. On that terribly bloody day, Husayn bin Ali -- grandson of Muhammad, the prophet of Islam, by his daughter Fatima -- was brutally killed and decapitated as he was offering his mid-afternoon prayers.

Tell me you are relating to an anachronism, tell me how many religious war you had in europe, what about france and the knight templars? what about the great inquisitions, the burning of the jews, Christianity murdered more Jew than Hitler ever did, and this with no gas chambers, they were burned at the stakes.. and what about the estimated 2 millions Vietnameses that were butchered by the US, what about the contamination of 1/2 of the agricultural land that cause another million death? lets not talk about it US is not an arab country..

Husayn's male companions were slaughtered by the army of Yazid, the caliph (Islam's supreme ruler), while women and children in the company of Husayn, including his wife and daughter, were abused and carried as war trophies to the capital of the expanding Arab-Islamic empire in Damascus.

Jews thru the bible claims mass murders of arabs , genocide and infanticides, isn't this a religion that preach that it is ok to hate and genocide arabs ? read the Bible from abaraham to the four testament , it does look like hebrews and jews were mass murderers.. By your account should we hate jews and bomb their people? I don't think so.. by the way, i am not anti-semite I am anti-zionist

http://fr.answers.yahoo.com/question/index;_ylt=Am1TA3sFkk6DWgJPcwMniYc4Agx.?qid=20060628091845AACxLbM http://fr.answers.yahoo.com/question/index;_ylt=Al0eovns3MWWmQ0RPbYAi2E4Agx.?qid=20060626080602AAUZCnT

The people of Karbala and surrounding areas passively watched as Muhammad's family and its claim to leadership of Muslims ended in tragedy. But belated grief tore the Arab-Muslim world apart, and its wounds continue to torment in countless ways a people for whom the massacre in Karbala has become the template of their history.

Again what about Christian inquisitions and the pseudo heretics?

Karbala is a necessary reminder of Muslims being unequalled tormentors and killers of Muslims.

what about Christian inquisitions and the pseudo heretics? Worst isn't?

Saddam Hussein as the ruling tyrant in Baghdad was only the most recent incarnation of an Arab Macbeth and the Mongol Genghis Khan rolled into one megalomaniacal killer.

Most of Saddam Hussein crimes were on behalf of the US, also Hussein crimes are light in comparison to the number of death the US imposed sanctions caused in Iraq, countless or Iraqis died because of the US pursuit of oil..Saddam is small potatoe killer beside US lead global terrorism and war against the poor..note where ever the US intervenes democracy was more difficult to obtain, the US being the biggest sponsor of dictatorship and terrorism in the world. The US did not become number one superpower without being number one terrorist and killer in the world.

It also illuminates the sheer hypocrisy of Arabs and Muslims who selectively and for political purposes rage against the United States and Israel (and not, for instance, against Russia or China despite the brutal suppression of their respective Muslim minorities) for Arab-Muslim casualties in conflicts that have been, almost without exception, precipitated by Arab-Muslim dictators and demagogues.

What are you talking about? what about the illegal creation of a zionist state in the middle of arabs land? the zionism state was pure idiocy from the begiining. why wont you mention that the TORTURED palestinians now live in the biggest prison in the world and are condemned to die..? what about the palestinian refugees? what about over land that were rubbed of palestininians.. Mr. mansur you can't create and holocaust of arabs because you want to avert an holocaust of jews.

This past July was grisly, and not just because of the war in Lebanon unleashed by Hezbollah terrorists against Israel.

Hizbollah isnt a terrorist organization, its a resistance organization, where did you get the news hizbollah started the recent war?

Iraq's health ministry reported July was the deadliest month for Iraqi casualties since March 2003. The figures provided were 3,438 Iraqis killed -- 1,855 of those as a result of sectarian violence and 1,583 from bombings and shootings carried out by insurgents. Some 3,600 were wounded during the same period.

Its a civil war thats caused by the US, I dont know why you are espousing the news that Iraq might fall into civil war..it was in a civil war 2 years ago and the US has lost the political love of Iraqis. There are report that the US caused the civil war because it lost the vote.. The US does not want democracy in these countries , democracy means government unfavorable to the US..

These figures followed a UN estimate of nearly 6,000 Iraqis killed during May and June. The killings in Iraq have been indiscriminate, and the killers are mostly Arabs, belonging to Sunni or Shiite sects. It is noteworthy that Iraqi Kurds, who suffered Saddam's genocidal violence, are uninvolved in this sectarian savagery.

It seem that american deaths goes also unreported.. Kurd have enough problem with TURKEY, it has been victim of more massacres from Turkey than from Hussein. This is not reported because Turkey is friend with the US.. thinks Turkey never used gas? and what about napalm used in Vietnam? what about the most recent used of napalm in fallujah a city completely destroyed by the US?

There has been no organized protest within the Arab-Muslim world or in the West against the daily toll of Iraqi deaths due to this hate-driven insurgency.

wake-up, go to znet networks,your news network do not report organized protests

Nor is Iraq the only place where Muslim violence against Muslims rages unabated. There is Darfur in Sudan, Somalia, Afghanistan, Kashmir, Algeria until recently, and hotspots in Iran, Bangladesh, Pakistan, Indonesia and Nigeria, Uzbekistan, Palestine, Morocco, Egypt, Saudi Arabia and Lebanon.

The violence is not specifically aimed at muslim but rather to terrorist groups sponsored by the US

How, then, might we explain why Muslim deaths seem only to matter to Arabs and Muslims -- and to apologists of Arab-Muslim politics in the West -- when they occur as a result of conflicts with the U.S. or Israel?

The US is failing with diplomacy and trades in the Middle East, it resorted to violence to secure its oil interest. the US is vilainizing muslim and arabs to justify a oil and land grab..

In witnessing worldwide protests over Lebanese deaths resulting from the recent Hezbollah-Israeli fighting, we might conclude it is politically acceptable when Muslims murder untold numbers of Muslims, but entirely unacceptable when they are collateral casualties of Israeli bombings.

what are you talking about? how can you prove that the videos shown by isarelis forces were filled with people when hizbollah defended lebanon? what do you think Israel does if its not targeting civilians? this is state terrorism pure and simple, bulldoze people home, starve them, cut their water and shout 12 years old and up..

This is the Orwellian reality of much of the Arab-Muslim world today, where Muslim and non-Muslim lives are too often seen as readily and contemptuously disposable -- except when they become handy tools of propaganda against Jews, Hindus and Americans.

Sure try to get a free ticket for israeli to kill muslim with all impunity..in your line of thinking because muslims appear to be killing muslim, they are a irrational people, it is ok to kill them.. you are esposing the CNN specialists that claims muslim and arab have a false sens of grievance, they plant bomb because its in their culture.. same could be said about american, a people filled with rapists, sex profeeterers, pimp. ponographers, they are an irational people , the like to invent bombs, nukes and WMDs. they sponsor dictators in the world to keep poor people in poverty.. they spend half their budget making wars and weapons that kills countless of innocent people.. they creates crisis and hates of other people to finance a war industry, and they are also accountable for 95% of poverty and war around the globe.. Also you seem to mention islamo- fascist (whatever that is).. in my opinion the two only country that display this form of dictatorship is saudi arabia (wallabism) and kuwait, countries that are friend with the US, Lebanon and Palestine being secular countries and being democratics..

cyrano

source: http://blogs.zmag.org