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Iraqi Elections Delay

By Justin Podur at Nov 27, 2004

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So the US and the Iraqi political parties it is sponsoring want to delay elections. Readers who follow this link will be impressed by the hypocrisy. Every story you read about Iraq now seems to have an obligatory feature about how many bodies the United States is finding as it turns a place like Fallujah or Mosul into rubble. These bodies, it's important to note, are bodies that the US is claiming were killed by the resistance. As for the corpses generated by the US operations themselves... "we don't do body counts", and as Arundhati Roy said a few weeks ago, we don't do the Geneva Conventions either. Instead, we shut down hospitals so they cannot report on body counts and murder journalists for the same reasons. Meanwhile, I had to include this Reuters photo courtesy of Akram Saleh in Fallujah, of the troops we support stopping a dangerous terrorist in his tracks. akramsaleh_reuters.jpg The Washington Post story I got it from is about how the Fallujah operations have brought the number of Iraqis in US custody to 8300. "The large influx of prisoners is putting stress on U.S. detention operations, providing the biggest test yet of new facilities and procedures adopted in the wake of the Abu Ghraib prison scandal this past spring, Miller and other officers said in interviews here." I wonder if it's putting any "stress" on the Iraqis who are being detained? I would think that it would be, especially if those Iraqis are put into "stress positions". Anyone believe any of this? The prison building that was the site of abuses by American guards has been turned over to Iraqi authorities and is used to jail criminals. Detainees in U.S. military custody are kept in recently constructed camps with climate-controlled tents, a visitation center and three hot meals a day. For the most cooperative prisoners, there are movies and a library. Miller, who has been supervising detention operations since April, said many of the changes, including a computerized record-keeping system, have enabled guards and interrogators to operate more efficiently. Also helpful is the experience soldiers have gained since taking over at the start of the year from the units involved in the scandal. Miller also noted that there are 180-210 interrogations a week. And even better: Allegations of abuse against detainees are down about 60 percent from what they were in May and average about 10 a month, Miller said. Only two or three a month tend to be substantiated, the general said. "These are not intentional. These are overly aggressive kinds of things, like combat takedowns," Miller said. Allegations of abuse against detainees are down about 60%! What a relief. There is more reading about Miller himself in Seymour Hersh's new book.

Comment On This Blog Post  See All Comments (8)

Person

Re: Iraqi Elections Delay

By Hesed00, Hesed at Nov 29, 2004 08:27 AM
No Joe, I don't think sounds Utopian at all. In fact it sounds ideal, however improbable at this time. (just based on the track record lately. Good talking to you.

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Person

Re: Iraqi Elections Delay

By Hesed00, Hesed at Nov 29, 2004 01:49 AM
Just realize what you're asking for when you say you want our troops immediately withdrawn. There will be consequences either way. It all depends on what your priorities are. Is there any forseeable outcome that satisfies you? Please consider who's running the show before you anwser, I can imagine Utopia on my own.

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Person

Re: Iraqi Elections Delay

By Hesed00, Hesed at Nov 29, 2004 01:49 AM
Please don't write me to tell me how crappy that sounds, I already know. But the only thing that kept Iraqi oil out of the hands of radicals (radicals other than oursleves, that is) was Saddam and he's gone now. Every ambitious Muslim with a hard-on for the US is going to take a shot at this new Iraqi government. To give you an idea of the chance it has of surviving one need only look at run they're giving OUR military right now. Don't get me wrong, I don't think that the men who are fighting the US are terrorists, but I think there are some among them and they are the ones who are really organized, committed and good at getting men to follow. Do you think that they will simply lay down their arms and go home upon our removal? Not a chance, they will make their bid for power just like everyone else. Welcome to the planet Earth, here's your body armor.

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Person

Re: Iraqi Elections Delay

By Hesed00, Hesed at Nov 29, 2004 00:55 AM
Do I think we should sort things out in Iraq? Yes, on a few conditions and they are IF: 1. We were asked to. 2. We wouldn't attempt to subvert the democratic prossess. 3. We could do it without utterly detroying the country and killing thousands. 4. If it meant it would better heal relations with Muslims. Since none of these apply then the actual answer is no. Iraq is going to be destroyed one way or another. Either by us our by Islamo-fascists looking to kill a fledgling democracy they view as illegitimate. Does it really matter who does it, when the ultimate blame for the circumstances leading to this destruction is laid upon the US doorstep? There is a good chance that if we just up and leave, Iraq will most likely fall into another militant totalitarian rule. The only difference will be, this time the ruler will not be secular like Saddam. Do you really want to leave all that oil in the hands of potential religious fanatics who want some payback?

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Person

Re: Iraqi Elections Delay

By Hesed00, Hesed at Nov 28, 2004 03:34 AM
You'll get no argument from me on American imperialism, Joe. That is indeed the overall, underlying problem as a whole. I was just trying to sum up the immediate dilemma we created and now must contend with. I tried explaining the intricasies of this problem and the global perceptions of America due to our involvement to a not-so-liberal relative of mine on thanksgiving. He looked a little bleary-eyed by the time I was done with the facts. Finally I had to break it down like this... Find a tree with a hornets nest. Now, knock the nest out of the tree with a stick. When the hornets come out in a fury, swing at them wildly with the stick in your left hand while trying to gently persuade them back into the nest with your right hand, in the hopes that you can now get all the hornets back into the nest so you can pick it up and put it back in the tree. This is the problem we face in Iraq. Now imagine your neighbors out on their porches watching you do this and everyone of them thinking the same thing, "I'm not letting my kids play with his kids anymore". That seemed to clarify things for him. Have you ever looked at your relatives and thought, "I must be adopted"?

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Person

By Hesed00, Hesed at Nov 27, 2004 23:52 PM
What to do? The best thing I can come up with is build a friggin' time machine, go back and stop the invasion before it occured. Barring that scenario I say we're pretty much screwed. Not to mention the Iraqis as well.

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Person

Re: Iraqi Elections Delay

By Hesed00, Hesed at Nov 27, 2004 23:49 PM
We could press to have the elections postponed with the affect of aggravating the majority Shiites as well as fueling more insurgency.(I hate that word) Or we could go ahead with an election where a minority population becomes completely disenfranchised which will, in all likelyhood, lead to domestic civil unrest if not all out civil war. Even if a civil war doesn't occur, how can a democracy where an entire group goes unrepresented be hailed as a triumph. This election is going to be used as a device by all sorts of people who are going to make there own individual claims about what a success it is and what that success can then mandate.(been hearing that word a lot lately) I think it's important to take into account facts such as these when they try to.

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Person

Re: Iraqi Elections Delay

By Hesed00, Hesed at Nov 27, 2004 23:37 PM
This is like picking a grain of sugar out of the salt shaker. It's really a no-win situation. This is the opener on a story from Reuters: (sorry for not having the link, this is a cut/paste from the article but I assure you it's what was written) BAGHDAD (Nov. 22) - Imad al-Wasi opened a voter registration center in the tense Baghdad suburb of Abu Ghraib three weeks ago. But not a single Iraqi has come to register. -Reuters Yadda, yadda, it goes on citing threats of violence from Sunni clerics, which is probably true. Sure, Allawi wants to go ahead with the elections, for the same reason the Sunnis want it postponed. This is internal powers jockeying for position. Regardless, the fact that the election is two months away and that NOT A SINGLE Iraqi in the Sunnni, Abu Graib province has turned out to register should be alarming to say the least. I don't think it's out of line to assume that other Sunni districts are experiencing simular boycotts.

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