Issues That Obama and Romney Avoid
With the quadrennial presidential election extravaganza reaching its peak, it’s useful to ask how the political campaigns are dealing with the most crucial issues we face. The simple answer is: badly, or not at all. If so, some important questions arise: why, and what can we do about it?
There are two issues of overwhelming significance, because the fate of the species is at stake: environmental disaster, and nuclear war.
The former is regularly on the front pages. On Sept. 19, for example, Justin Gillis reported in The New York Times that the melting of Arctic sea ice had ended for the year, “but not before demolishing the previous record – and setting off new warnings about the rapid pace of change in the region.”
The melting is much faster than predicted by sophisticated computer models and the most recent U.N. report on global warming. New data indicate that summer ice might be gone by 2020, with severe consequences. Previous estimates had summer ice disappearing by 2050.
“But governments have not responded to the change with any greater urgency about limiting greenhouse emissions,” Gillis writes. “To the contrary, their main response has been to plan for exploitation of newly accessible minerals in the Arctic, including drilling for more oil” – that is, to accelerate the catastrophe.
This reaction demonstrates an extraordinary willingness to sacrifice the lives of our children and grandchildren for short-term gain. Or, perhaps, an equally remarkable willingness to shut our eyes so as not to see the impending peril.
That’s hardly all. A new study from the Climate Vulnerability Monitor has found that “climate change caused by global warming is slowing down world economic output by 1.6 percent a year and will lead to a doubling of costs in the next two decades.” The study was widely reported elsewhere but Americans have been spared the disturbing news.
The official Democratic and Republican platforms on climate matters are reviewed in Science magazine’s Sept. 14 issue. In a rare instance of bipartisanship, both parties demand that we make the problem worse.
In 2008, both party platforms had devoted some attention to how the government should address climate change. Today, the issue has almost disappeared from the Republican platform – which does, however, demand that Congress “take quick action” to prevent the Environmental Protection Agency, established by former Republican President Richard Nixon in saner days, from regulating greenhouse gases. And we must open Alaska’s Arctic refuge to drilling to take “advantage of all our American God-given resources.” We cannot disobey the Lord, after all.
The platform also states that “We must restore scientific integrity to our public research institutions and remove political incentives from publicly funded research” – code words for climate science.
The Republican candidate Mitt Romney, seeking to escape from the stigma of what he understood a few years ago about climate change, has declared that there is no scientific consensus, so we should support more debate and investigation – but not action, except to make the problems more serious.
The Democrats mention in their platform that there is a problem, and recommend that we should work “toward an agreement to set emissions limits in unison with other emerging powers.” But that’s about it.
President Barack Obama has emphasized that we must gain 100 years of energy independence by exploiting fracking and other new technologies – without asking what the world would look like after a century of such practices.
So there are differences between the parties: about how enthusiastically the lemmings should march toward the cliff.
The second major issue, nuclear war, is also on the front pages every day, but in a way that would astound a Martian observing the strange doings on Earth.
The current threat is again in the Middle East, specifically Iran – at least according to the West, that is. In the Middle East, the U.S. and Israel are considered much greater threats.
Unlike Iran, Israel refuses to allow inspections or to sign the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty. It has hundreds of nuclear weapons and advanced delivery systems, and a long record of violence, aggression and lawlessness, thanks to unremitting American support. Whether Iran is seeking to develop nuclear weapons, U.S. intelligence doesn’t know.
In its latest report, the International Atomic Energy Agency says that it cannot demonstrate “the absence of undeclared nuclear material and activities in Iran” – a roundabout way of condemning Iran, as the U.S. demands, while conceding that the agency can add nothing to the conclusions of U.S. intelligence.
Therefore Iran must be denied the right to enrich uranium that is guaranteed by the NPT and endorsed by most of the world, including the nonaligned countries that have just met in Tehran.
The possibility that Iran might develop nuclear weapons arises in the electoral campaign. (The fact that Israel already has them does not.) Two positions are counterposed: Should the U.S. declare that it will attack if Iran reaches the capability to develop nuclear weapons, which dozens of countries enjoy? Or should Washington keep the “red line” more indefinite?
The latter position is that of the White House; the former is demanded by Israeli hawks – and accepted by the U.S. Congress. The Senate just voted 90-1 to support the Israeli position.
Missing from the debate is the obvious way to mitigate or end whatever threat Iran might be believed to pose: Establish a nuclear weapons-free zone in the region. The opportunity is readily available: An international conference is to convene in a few months to pursue this objective, supported by almost the entire world, including a majority of Israelis.
The government of Israel, however, has announced that it will not participate until there is a general peace agreement in the region, which is unattainable as long as Israel persists in its illegal activities in the occupied Palestinian territories. Washington keeps to the same position, and insists that Israel must be excluded from any such regional agreement.
We could be moving toward a devastating war, possibly even nuclear. Straightforward ways exist to overcome this threat, but they will not be taken unless there is large-scale public activism demanding that the opportunity be pursued. This in turn is highly unlikely as long as these matters remain off the agenda, not just in the electoral circus, but in the media and larger national debate.
Elections are run by the public relations industry. Its primary task is commercial advertising, which is designed to undermine markets by creating uninformed consumers who will make irrational choices – the exact opposite of how markets are supposed to work, but certainly familiar to anyone who has watched television.
It’s only natural that when enlisted to run elections, the industry would adopt the same procedures in the interests of the paymasters, who certainly don’t want to see informed citizens making rational choices.
The victims, however, do not have to obey, in either case. Passivity may be the easy course, but it is hardly the honorable one.






Part of the Problem
By Keller, Keith at Oct 06, 2012 20:37 PM
CHOMSKY- “With the quadrennial presidential election extravaganza reaching its peak, it’s useful to ask how the political campaigns are dealing with the most crucial issues we face. The simple answer is: badly, or not at all. If so, some important questions arise: why, and what can we do about it?”
What political campaigns is Noam talking about? Surely not that of Jill Stein, the Green Party candidate. Or other Third Party candidates. So Chomsky pisses and moans about the lack of discussion and action of the corporate candidates, while simultaneously joining in marginalizing opposition to business as usual. How many times has Noam stated that realistically we all know that Third Party candidates don’t have a chance of winning. Logically, then, why vote for someone who doesn’t have a chance? Why don’t they have a chance? Because people won’t vote for someone who doesn’t have a chance. And Noam’s flawless logic turns into a self-fulfilling prophesy for more of the same. A Third Party candidate doesn’t have to win to make a difference. Any significant voter protest at the polls could have an effect. Why discourage it? I don’t suggest devoting too much emphasis on electoral politics, however, voting disapproval by voting Third Party or Independent is such an easy alternative, and more effective than voting for the more effective evil, or not voting. So yes, there is little awareness of alternatives to empire, however, Noam Chomsky needs to be aware that by not mentioning the real alternatives presented by someone like Jill Stein, he is contributing to the problem.
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Re: Part of the Problem??
By Loguidice, Philip at Oct 07, 2012 12:37 PM
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Re: Re: Part of the Problem??
By Street, Paul at Oct 07, 2012 16:54 PM
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Paul Street Response
By Keller, Keith at Oct 07, 2012 22:49 PM
Paul said: “Keith you seem have little real understanding of Chomsky's position (he will be voting for Stein, I might add...he said that in a recent interview).”
Interesting that you would misrepresent the interview. He will be voting for Stein because he thinks that Massachusetts is a safe state for Obama. If it wasn’t, he would vote for Obama, the lesser evil (see Chris Garriques, below). This is exactly what he has consistently said in the past, and I have in no way misrepresented his “lesser of two evils” position. I agree with Glen Ford on this, Obama is the more effective evil. Also, re-read my comment in regards Chomsky’s statement concerning the political campaigns not dealing with these two critically important issues. This is false, pure and simple. Third Party candidates like Stein are dealing with these issues, but not getting much publicity, even from the likes of Noam Chomsky. Perhaps he is concerned that in swing states Obama might lose to Romney if the people were informed. If this isn’t electoral support for business as usual, I don’t know what is. Yeah sure, vote for Jill, but only if your reasonably sure it won’t upset the apple cart! Talk about battered voter syndrome! When, oh when, are any of you going to hold any of these politicians accountable?
Paul said: “…it will take a lot of difficult organizing and movement-building -- something rather more taxing than protest-voting, which is what I've generally and quite easily and non-consequentially done during my 5 minutes in the ballot box every 4 years. NC really doesn't make all that much over the voting question --- he says that the real politics that matters most is about movement-building beneath and beyond the quadrennial extravaganzas.”
Did I say don’t engage in movement building? No, I have consistently said that during your “5 minutes in the ballot box every 4 years,” hold the Democrats accountable and vote for change. What does Noam say? Organize, organize, organize (he says that a lot), and then vote for Obama if the outcome is in doubt. Can you and he not see the logical contradiction and blatant hypocrisy here? Talk about organizing and movement building for revolutionary change while voting for business as usual. And where has all of this ‘organizing’ and ‘movement building’ gotten so far? If people can’t even be persuaded to vote Third Party (including Noam, if it makes a difference), you think they are going to join in your Marxian revolution? Get real.
Paul said: “You have made similar comments on some of my past essays at Z and, you know, it's just a broken record. Same old song.”
Jeez, Paul, was that the essay where you recommended voting for the Democrats because they were the greater evil? You have a problem with a lively discussion on important issues? Or should the cadres maintain respectful silence except to applaud? I don’t want to shock you, but I don’t comment all that frequently on Znet, few do. For comparison, check out the comments section on Mondoweiss. Perhaps if there were more commenters like me, Znet comments would be much more active and meaningful.
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Re: Paul Street Response
By Street, Paul at Oct 09, 2012 02:47 AM
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Final Response to Street
By Keller, Keith at Oct 09, 2012 18:28 PM
First, a quote from that article you linked: “It would be best to get Obama back for a second term for two key reasons. First, it is dishonest, or just plain ignorant, not to admit that the intensity of the corporate and social-conservative assault on the U.S. populace will be more severe in Romney’s first term (particularly if that term were to coincide with a full Republican takeover of Congress) than it will be under Obama’s second term. Second, and most important (since the main task is to get serious left socio-political movements underway), the presence of another Republican in the White House will just encourage citizens and activists to blame everything wrong in America on “those insane evil Republicans.”(Paul Street)
There it is, ‘radicals for Obama!’ How did that work out last time? How did that work out for Clinton both times? Both Clinton and Obama did terrible things that no Republican could implement. They were both the more effective evil. The Obama administration is the absolute worst administration we have ever had. To vote for Obama is to vote approval for his policies, to provide electoral legitimacy for empire and neoliberal globalization. That is the unfortunate reality which you completely ignore.
Paul said: “You bring absolutely nothing new to this tired old quadrennial intra-leftist "debate." Zero. Nada. Just the same old song. Besides being ignorant (see why I use that word in the Z Magazine essay), and insulting, your position is boring and unoriginal.”
Talk about the pot calling the snowflake black! What have you done besides insult me and link to some unoriginal article you have written where you repeat the ‘lesser of two evils’ mantra? You have refuted me only in your own mind, that is to say, defended and justified your own unoriginal position. But wait, isn’t voting for Democrats because they are the greater evil a new and original idea? No, voting for the Democrats is not a new idea, only the excuse is new.
Why the distortion? In your article of 1/25/12, I made two comments. On this post, I made but one comment before you jumped in to say I was “boring,” “…just a broken record. Same old song.” Bored by three comments? Not so much that you couldn’t find the energy to insult me and try to shut me down. Why the invective? Both here and on the previous article (linked below), you heap on the insults in an unseemly fashion. Your wild over-reaction to my comments indicates considerable defensive hostility at me for challenging the party line, for having the temerity to disagree with Paul Street on this. You don’t take criticism well, and since your arguments are fatally flawed and easily ridiculed you rely on personal attack. You are a perfect example of typical Marxist thought where elites such as yourself tell the rest of us dumbies what to think and do. And if we don’t, you get mightily upset. But don’t worry, I make very few comments on Znet, and will probably make fewer after this. And if the comment involves politics and the ‘lesser of two evils’ syndrome, you will likely materialize to put me in my place. Link: http://www.zcommunications.org/reflections-on-the-quadrennial-extravaganza-by-paul-street
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Re: Final Response to Street
By Street, Paul at Oct 09, 2012 21:07 PM
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Re: Re: Re: Part of the Problem??
By Loguidice, Philip at Oct 08, 2012 11:12 AM
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Philip Loguidice Response
By Keller, Keith at Oct 07, 2012 23:19 PM
“you need to read more of noam's work”
My bookshelves contain many volumes of Noam’s work.
“you don't seem to know his position on the subject.”
His position is to vote Third Party if it won’t make any difference, but to vote for the lesser evil if it will. This is his consistent position for many years (see Chris Garrigues, below). You may not be aware of this, but in September, 2004, Noam and other former Nader supporters urged voters to support Kerry/Edwards in all swing states. I disagree with him on this issue.
“pissing and moaning - that is what you call it?”
That is exactly what I call it. Since he has not called attention to other candidates who have dealt with these issues, and since he de facto supports Obama, he is pissing and moaning about something which he has no intention of holding Obama accountable for. This type of support allows the Democrats to move farther and farther to the right with no fear of consequences, while forcing the Republicans to move farther and farther to the right. All the while, we hear ritual incantations about organizing and movement building even as we head for the edge of the cliff. If you are too fearful to hold politicians accountable at the ballot box, you can forget about the rest.
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Re: Philip Loguidice Response
By Loguidice, Philip at Oct 08, 2012 11:09 AM
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Re: Re: Philip Loguidice Response
By Keller, Keith at Oct 08, 2012 22:10 PM
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Re: Re: Re: Philip Loguidice Response
By Loguidice, Philip at Oct 09, 2012 10:26 AM
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I care about Terri
By Lee, Terri at Oct 10, 2012 01:26 AM
I can't believe Jill Stein is Harvard Educated. I saw her interview on Bill Moyers and she sounded ridiculous.
This is directly from Stein's appearance on Bill Moyers show on September 7th:
BILL MOYERS: If you made it to the White House what would you do on the first day?
JILL STEIN: For starters I think we would fire Wall Street because Wall Street is all over the White House from the Treasurer's office to--
BILL MOYERS: Jill, you can't fire Wall Street.
JILL STEIN: However --
BILL MOYERS: You can't fire the people who provide the money. They can fire you.
_________
Moyers was sort of laughing at her.
When there is anger, disappointment and frustration with one of the two who will be president what the Left has done for years (and is still doing today) is simply to rally around the Third Party candidates --- without really thinking about it or noting what these candidates are about. There is no real examination of them -- it's just that they are 'not one of the two'.(Or with regard to the race in '08 -- all Obama had to do/be was 'not Bush')
Jill Stein can and does 'promise the moon' -- and why not? She will never be held accountable because she will never sit in the White House as Moyers asks her. She knows it and her supporters know it -- so she might throw in the kitchen sink. She's got nothing to lose. She will never be accused of not 'upholding her promises' because she will never hold the office she's running for.
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Re: I care about Terri
By Loguidice, Philip at Oct 11, 2012 13:54 PM
BILL MOYERS: They can fire you.
JILL STEIN: If you are dependent on that money, and that is exactly the point. That is exactly why you want to be a part of a political party which is not being held hostage by its Wall Street funders. And that's why I think, you know, you don't want to go into the voting booth and give them a mandate for four more years of the same with two candidates who are fundamentally being funded by Wall Street and corporate America that is raking us over the coals.
BILL MOYERS: But America is a capitalist democracy. You have to deal with the realities and power of capital and the needs of institutions that feed capital into the system, right?
JILL STEIN: Of course, and unfortunately our current capitalist system doesn't do that. You know, it provides capital to the very tippy top that's already got plenty. You know, small businesses have been absolutely crushed by this system. And the stimulus packages that the president and Congress have provided have been entirely inadequate to the job. They've provided mostly tax breaks which as we know is an extremely expensive way to create jobs.
And I think the American people object to what's called the realities, those political realities which are essentially the backroom deals that those politicians make in order to get the campaign contributions. So they come to office owing return favors. We don't come to office owing those favors. We have nothing but public interest support.
So we owe favors actually to the public to implement the agenda that they want, a Green New Deal to create jobs, health care as a human right, forgiving student debt, bailing out our students and our homeowners and not our bankers. We do have the money to do this. We're just squandering trillions on wars, Wall Street bailouts and tax breaks for the wealthy.
BILL MOYERS: Your Green New Deal. What is that? What's the essence of it?
JILL STEIN: It is an emergency program to solve two problems: the unemployment crisis and the climate crisis. And it basically uses the model of the New Deal which got us out of the Great Depression, created a lot of jobs in the 1930s. We can do that. It directly creates jobs in our communities, and at the same time that it creates jobs it also jumpstarts the green economy that effectively spells an end to climate change and makes wars for oil obsolete.
It makes national dollars available at the local level so our communities can decide what kinds of jobs they need to become sustainable.
So it creates jobs for teachers. Let's hire back those hundreds of thousands of teachers who've been laid off, nurses, childcare after school, home care, elder care, violence prevention, drug abuse rehabilitation, affordable housing construction. It allows people to go down to an employment office and get a job in public works and public services. And it also provides funding for small businesses and startups at the community level.
BILL MOYERS: What do you say when someone says you're utopian. You want what is impractical and impossible?
CHERI HONKALA: You know, my whole life has been about dealing with reality and being as pragmatic and as practical as possible. And we have managed to feed, house and clothe thousands of people with absolutely no resources. We're experts at being resourceful but resource-less.
And we are also experts at really seeing the massive amounts of abundance and how it never gets in the hands of the actual people. And in my neighborhood or anyplace else across the country, watching families open up their refrigerator and nothing being in there, and then watching the massive amounts of food that is thrown away on a daily basis. In Philadelphia there's 40,000 abandoned properties. There's something really wrong with that picture. And it's really this whole issue about, like, who's in control and who's making the decisions and, you know, the wrong priorities. And the priority has to be the American people and not corporate greed.
BILL MOYERS: You have said, Jill, we can and must shift to an economy in which 100 percent of our electricity is generated renewably. But we're headed in the other direction toward more fossil fuel, more drilling, more fracking and even on public lands. And the majority of people seem to like the jobs that creates and the local prosperity that comes with that “drill, baby, drill.”
JILL STEIN: And people would like even more if they could have jobs and local prosperity without destroying their climate, without polluting their air and their water and without basically, you know, riding us into a devastating future and in fact a devastating now because our water and our air and our climate are unraveling around us right now.
BILL MOYERS: You've said that to achieve your platform would require quote, "A World War II-scale mobilization." Two questions. Where's the money coming from? And secondly, World War II required a lot of sacrifice from people. What sacrifice are you asking us to make? First, where's the money coming from?
JILL STEIN: So the money comes from downsizing the military. We're now spending $1 trillion a year on a bloated military industrial security complex which doesn't make us more secure. So we can cut that back. It's been doubled. Our military budget doubled over the last decade. We can cut it back by half to where it was before and be more secure on account of it and more secure for spending our dollars here at home and creating a stable and prosperous and sustainable economy.
So hundreds of billions of dollars can come from redirecting military dollars which are being squandered. They can also come from tax dollars which are not being paid now by the very rich. And we're not only talking about a millionaire's surtax which--
BILL MOYERS: Soak the rich again, there they come again, soak the rich.
JILL STEIN: Well, isn't it about time? Instead of soaking the poor how about we have some level playing field here?
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Spot on, Philip!
By Keller, Keith at Oct 11, 2012 15:48 PM
I wasn’t going to comment again, but I had to say how much I appreciated this comment. Absolutely spot on! Keep it up!
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Re: Spot on, Philip!
By Loguidice, Philip at Oct 11, 2012 16:16 PM
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Election Boycotts are common and popular worldwide
By Lee, Terri at Oct 10, 2012 01:17 AM
"I’m of two minds about it. It’s highly understandable that people should feel this way. And if a huge number of people joined, it would make an important statement." - Noam Chomsky
So now do you still wish to say to me, "She is still here on this thread as well, with her don't vote nonsense"?
Google up 'Election boycott' and let me know what you find. This strategy is used globally and just recently in Belarus their Election Boycott shut down the polls. The people know that the elected leaders are not credible -- but, as predicted the state and the media try to spin it otherwise.
Election Boycotts are a means of expressing 'no confidence' -- what a powerful message that can send.
We all know that our electoral system is impossible to maneuver and yet all insist on banging their heads against the wall to try to figure out some strategy. Now that's a bit silly, no?
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Final Boycott Nonsense
By Keller, Keith at Oct 10, 2012 15:48 PM
Terri said “So now do you still wish to say to me, "She is still here on this thread as well, with her don't vote nonsense"?”
Absolutely. It is complete nonsense. You claim Chomsky said “And if a huge number of people joined, it would make an important statement." Well, if a ‘huge’ number of people voted for Jill Stein or other Third Party, that would make an even more important statement. Furthermore, voting isn’t just for President, there are state and local elections. Not voting is abdicating the entire system to the right wing, the Tea Party gets to elect the mayor, etc. You just can’t get much dumber or irresponsible than that. This is the Koch brothers’ dream come true, and if they aren’t sending money to your cause, you should submit a request for funds immediately. And if Noam Chomsky is really recommending not voting thereby allowing the rabid right to control the ballot box for state and local elections, then shame on him!
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Re: Philip Loguidice Response
By Walsh, Vincent at Oct 09, 2012 21:38 PM
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Re: Re: Philip Loguidice Response
By Walsh, Vincent at Oct 09, 2012 21:40 PM
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Re: Re: Re: Philip Loguidice Response
By Lee, Terri at Oct 10, 2012 00:54 AM
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Philip Loguidice Response
By Walsh, Vincent at Oct 10, 2012 01:29 AM
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Response to Vincent Walsh!
By Lee, Terri at Oct 10, 2012 01:40 AM
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Re: Response to Vincent Walsh!
By Walsh, Vincent at Oct 10, 2012 01:48 AM
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Yes, Vincent
By Lee, Terri at Oct 10, 2012 01:56 AM
We already know the "winner" of 2012: The NeoLiberal Agenda will win! It will either be delivered to us by a man with a white face wearing a red tie or a man with a brown face wearing a blue tie -- but the NeoLiberal agenda is on it's way no matter what we do or don't do at the voting booth!
Obama serves Empire so well and so he is useful to Empire and deserving of Glen Ford calling him 'the more effective evil' --- as he gets away with so much more! This makes him 'more dangerous' and certainly not the 'lesser evil'. So it gets tricky then -- because that would be counter-intuitive to the populare notion and would make Romney the 'lesser evil'.....
...and we spin around and round and fight and bicker and try to 'strategize' and 'protest' in the voting booth and it's all rather silly!
So it's very interesting that those who say that 'the electoral extravaganza' is no big deal -- a small matter -- spend so much time talking and writing about it!
Generally, we put our time and our energy on things which we deem important and which we value.
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Re: Re: Philip Loguidice Response
By Loguidice, Philip at Oct 11, 2012 16:27 PM
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Philip Loguidice
By Lee, Terri at Oct 10, 2012 01:28 AM
Reading more of Noam's work is not required to speak on this. And Noam's position is a simple, common and popular one. It does not require 'deep thought' or 'complex analysis'.
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Re: Part of the Problem
By Garrigues, Chris at Oct 07, 2012 17:20 PM
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The Genuine Electoral Alternative in 2012 is the ELECTION BOYCOTT
By Lee, Terri at Oct 08, 2012 03:11 AM
and/ or my own Zspace:http://www.zcommunications.org/blog/TerriLee
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Re: The Genuine Electoral Alternative in 2012 is the ELECTION BOYCOTT
By Walsh, Vincent at Oct 10, 2012 01:30 AM
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Hello again Vincent and YES! The Genuine Electoral Alternative in 2012 is the ELECTION BOYCOTT
By Lee, Terri at Oct 10, 2012 01:44 AM
As you know, I too am an Election Boycotter and boycott activist.
I am boycotting becasue our problems are systemic and not about Candidate A or Candidate B or Party X or Y or Z.
I want to dis-credit the Rulers and an effective boycott can do this.
Tell me, what are your reasons for Boycotting? And/or why are you not circling around some 'third party alternative' as most are?
I look forward to your reply.
Terri
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Re: Hello again Vincent and YES! The Genuine Electoral Alternative in 2012 is the ELECTION BOYCOTT
By Walsh, Vincent at Oct 10, 2012 01:59 AM
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I thought you just wrote, above....
By Lee, Terri at Oct 10, 2012 02:39 AM
..that you intend to boycott!
Now, you are saying something just the opposite. I'm not following.
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Re: Hello again Vincent and YES! The Genuine Electoral Alternative in 2012 is the ELECTION BOYCOTT
By Walsh, Vincent at Oct 10, 2012 02:01 AM
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The left has been 'voting alternative party' for decades...
By Lee, Terri at Oct 10, 2012 02:41 AM
Every election cycle the same old chatter and the same old remedies.
Welcome the new kid on the block! ELECTION BOYCOTT 2012.
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Your Z essay of Dec 2008 is quite touching
By Lee, Terri at Oct 10, 2012 01:48 AM
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Re: Your Z essay of Dec 2008 is quite touching
By Walsh, Vincent at Oct 10, 2012 02:02 AM
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Yes, Chris
By Lee, Terri at Oct 08, 2012 03:46 AM
Isn't this just a stunning position to take? I find it odd and curious (and unchanged for many years with, it seems, no examination in recent years)!
You might be interested to note that Glenn Greenwald broke with Chomsky and Zinn when it comes to 'lesser evil voting' - and here's what Greenwald had to say:
GREENWALD: You know there’s abeen lots of people who make radical critiques of hte government who — like Noam Chomsky, Howard Zinn and others — who have said ‘as horrible as the Democrats are the fact that they are even a little bit better than the Republicans means that it’s important that they win and not Republicans because with an entity as powerful as the United States governmetn even small differences can make meaningful differences in the lives of millions of people.’
And so even though there’s tiny little differences between Democrats and Republicans — and they’re both evil and corrupt in their own ways — that it’s important to continue to elect Democrats, they’ve argued.
That to me was an argument that was somewhat persuasive — for awhile.
And what I’ve actually decided and concluded instead was that even if there are short-term benefits to electing Democrats — as opposed to Republicans — so you get a Sonya Sotomayor on the Supreme Court instead of an Antonio Scalia, for example — something like that.
That’s a benefit that’ll sway some case and it’s bettr [inaudible]….um, there’s also experent costs to pledging your loyalty to a political party and to contine to support it even though it’s in this extremely corrupt and destructive expression.
And so it’s not just the benefit that needs to be weighed, it’s the cost as well, knowing — as party leaders do — that many liberals are convinced (and that many people on the left are convniced) by this reasoning [the Democrats] can continue to ignore people on the left, because they know that at the end of the day they’ll scare enough of them to with scary images of Michele Bachman or Newt Gingrich or whomever…they’ll continue to support [the Democrats] even though they’re ignored adn they get nothing.
And they’ll be ignored and get nothing forever.
That’s a huge cost.
Another cost is the opportunity cost of doing activism for a political party that doesn’t care at all about you.
Instead of using your money and time on more meaningful changes.
[APPLAUSE]
So that, I think, is the ultimate formula that needs to be evaluated. The ultimate weighing of costs and benefits that needs to be assessed — not just ‘well, there are some beneifts to the Democrats, therefore let’s vote for them.”
[Ask, too] what are the costs from continuing to support and prop up this party and having them know that they can take the support for granted and putting our time and energy into that rather that something more significant that can achieve something more enduring and more fundamental with longer-lasting benefits.
And so that’s the calculation that, to me, has swayed me away from that view [of Zinn and Chomsky].
SOURCE:
http://wearemany.org/v/2011/07/civil-liberties-under-obama
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The "protest vote" is a myth.
By Lee, Terri at Oct 08, 2012 03:09 AM
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Re: Part of the Problem
By Lee, Terri at Oct 08, 2012 03:19 AM
Just a short while ago, the results of Venezuela's election was revealed. The re-election of Chavez accurately reflects the 'will of the people' -- guaranteed. The Venezuelan people were able to 'speak' via their electoral system because they possess one of the best electoral systems in the world with high voting integrity. The selection of Chavez is verifiable.
Here in the US the entire electoral system is fraudulent.. I highly recommend this audio: http://www.blogtalkradio.com/carsonscorner/2012/10/02/consent-to-tyranny-voting-in-the-usa which features the writer of the book by the same name:
http://mobile.zcommunications.org/consent-to-tyranny-voting-in-the-usa-by-mark-e-smith-1?set_go_to_comment=188874
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It's illogical and Irresponsible
By Lee, Terri at Oct 08, 2012 13:39 PM
Keith - I agree with you. I find it misaligned myself. It does not follow logic and here's how.
Noam Chomsky and others accurately decry the horrors of the system and the corporate candidates and their agendas. They also claim that voting is 'not such a big deal' --- because, truly, the electoral system 'runs itself' and is rigged.
At the end of the day only one of the billion dollar corporate candidates will sit in the Oval Office -- wars and drone bombing will continue. The public is not able to stop this.
Or put another way: it's impossible to vote for peace in a system based on a war economy.
We all seem to know this -- including Noam Chomsky. At the same time not only curiously suggests 'lesser evil' voting (which ironically can encourage greater evil) but also publicly claims his support for Third Party candidate -- Jill Stein!!!!!!
What is so outlandish and stunning about this is that he: 1. Diminishes the value, importance and significance of voting (which, I agree with); but then, 2. Publicly endorses a candidate (who is running in the system that he just claimed is unimportant).
I think of it like this: I am not a sport-minded person. I don't know much at all about sports, teams, strategy, or sports personalities. If I said that I think that the Minnesota Vikings will make it to the Super Bowl this year -- how valuable and credible would that claim be? It would not be credible at all because I just stated that I don't care so much about sports and don't see it as significant. Throwing support behind the Vikings would hold little meaning.
One does not need to 'read more Chomsky' to understand this dynamic. US Electoral Politics is not rocket science and 'reading more Chomsky' would not give greater insight into this rather simple matter.
I think it's a bit irresponsible what Noam Chomsky did because Jill Stein's campaign is delighted with the endorsement as if it means something significant. In reality, it's a very weak 'endorsement' to say -- "I don't really put much value on the system your in or your candidacy --- but, what the heck! -- I will loan my name to your campaign."
American elections bring out the worst in all of us. They are so 'narrow-spectrumed' (Chomsky's term) and over-hyped up -- yet everyone seem obliged to get in the conversation about it when in reality they are so meaningless and unimportant.
As a result of that I am helping to organize and support a campaign to BOYCOTT the (foolish and meaningless) elections.
I find it liberating as my actions, viewpoint and values are all aligned. Like Noam Chomsky -- I agree that the elections are theatrical nonsense -- that is why I don't pretend that there is some way to 'strategize' them or do something 'radical' inside the voting booth.
Two myths: 1. "Strategic voting" 2. The protest vote.
When one thinks in terms of 'strategy' or 'vote proteting' they stay ATTACHED to the wretched system and think that there is something clever, unique, interesting or intelligent they can suggest or advise when it comes to US POTUS 'voting' -- and, there's not.
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Re: It's illogical and Irresponsible
By Weber, Mark at Oct 08, 2012 14:45 PM
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Hi Mark
By Lee, Terri at Oct 08, 2012 21:29 PM
When you have time, check out the efforts of the Electoral Boycott on my Z space and also here:
www.electionboycott2012.org
Thanks.
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Re: Part of the Problem
By Owens, Sarah at Oct 08, 2012 19:07 PM
http://www.zcommunications.org/how-progressives-should-approach-election-2012-by-noam-chomsky
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The Left has been circling....
By Lee, Terri at Oct 08, 2012 21:34 PM
Choices and options increasingly narrow down each year: for instance, no one has primaried Obama; "Americans Elect" was unable to produce even a billionaire independent challenger; the number of battleground states has been reduced; and the system has guaranteed that Third Party candidates are always shut out (no chance of viability). Additionally, this is the first election with Citizen's United -- which has gotten the voter out of the way even more.
Time we try something new -- which it seems has never been attempted before--- an Election Boycott.
For more www.electionboycott2012.org
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Re: Part of the Problem
By Mills, Gabriel at Oct 08, 2012 21:38 PM
It took 25 years of organisation and gradual gains at a local, borough council level, to elect in 2010 (despite the "first past the post" electoral system) Britain's first and only Green Member of Parliament, Caroline Lucas -- of 650 MPs. It took the same period of time to organise and get elected the first Labour government. New political parties cannot achieve overnight success.
By 1987 Greens were attacked by Labour locally (in Brighton, East Sussex) for having the temerity to stand for election at all, as soon as we were perceived as a threat to their slender majority. While painfully aware that we risked "splitting the vote" and letting in the Tories (as very much the greater of two evils, while we had no chance of winning), our appeal to electors was "if you don't vote for what you really want, how do you expect ever to get it?"
This was in response to -- and gradually won over -- the many people who had told us on their doorsteps that they "really" wanted to vote Green, but were "scared of letting the Tories in". As the Green vote increased year on year, it became increasingly difficult for the media to dismiss it as a "protest vote". (So protest means nothing?)
In my view, not voting is a cop-out. Vote for what you really want, if there's a candidate who represents it -- and better, organise too. Otherwise you will have no chance of ever getting it.
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Not voting is wise...
By Lee, Terri at Oct 09, 2012 01:03 AM
No matter who you vote for more wars and drone bombs are ahead.
It is not a 'cop out' -- it is a refusal to consent to tyranny and is a type of Election Defiance. The US electoral system is impossible. We do not have proportional representation here.
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Re: Re: Part of the Problem
By H., Jason at Oct 09, 2012 20:43 PM
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BOYCOTT 2012!
By Lee, Terri at Oct 10, 2012 01:08 AM
We have been taught over the years to 'match' our political desires with the candidate that best 'matches' our views and this is one metric for how we should cast our vote.
The question always seems to be 'Who should we vote for?' rather than 'Should we even vote at all?"
The Two-Party system has COMPLETELY locked out any possibility of a Third Party candidate winning. So, no matter who you 'like' or who 'fits' your views --- all the votes in the world for that candidate won't do it. You know they can't win and the candidate also knows that they cannot win. Ever.
This year, there's a new kid on the block. And that new kid is BOYCOTT 2012!
There are many who are supporting this rather sane approach to an electoral system and Constitution that insures that the Ruling Elite makes the selection and not the people. There is no way -- absolutely none -- in our current electoral system for our 'voices to be heard'. The Constitution and the Electoral College has assured this.
Whatever you do in the voting booth -- it cannot advance your political wishes. At the end of the day it will either be Romney or Ryan sitting in the Oval Office and either of them will serve Empire very well.
I invite you and others to explore this website www.electionboycott2012.org and my own Zspace for more: http://www.zcommunications.org/zspace/TerriLee
Thanks,
Terri
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Re: BOYCOTT 2012!
By Andrews, John at Oct 10, 2012 08:07 AM
I'm in the UK so am not completely aufait with the US voting process hence my observations / questions may be ignorance based.
How is sucess measured by BOYCOTT 2012? Is voter apathy a measure of sucess? How do you know the difference between apathy and boycott? If the voter turn out in the last election was 57.37% (Voter turnout in the United States presidential elections - Wikipedia .) what would you consider to be a sucessful outcome this time - 55%, 50%? But how do you know that the reduction is a positive action (I will boycott the election) rather than a negative action (It's raining outside and I can't be arsed to vote)?
In the UK, you can spoil the ballot paper by writing on it say "No Gods, No Masters" and this is counted as a spoilt ballot paper. If you are of an anarchist ilk or if you cannot bring yourself, for whatever reason, to vote for any of the candidates on the ballot paper then you can positively voice your disagreement with the process by spoiling the ballot paper. Spoilt ballot papers are counted as a vote and hence are reflected in the voter turn out figures. Spoiling the ballot paper is a positive act (it's raining outside but I can be arsed to walk to the polling station and spoil a ballot paper).
Best wishes
John Andrews
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Hi John Andrews -- a response
By Lee, Terri at Oct 10, 2012 22:19 PM
Thank you for your comment -- you have wonderful questions.
The Election Boycott does not make a distinction between 'voter apathy' and those who are not apathy -- but outraged and engaging in a type of principled non-voting. It could be argued that 'voter apathy' is a type of natural or organic 'boycotting' by refusing participation (not feeling motivated, inspired, lack of trust in the system, lack of faith in the candidates, etc).
I'm not sure that there needs to be an actual number/percentage that would be definitive in determining or judging a successful boycott but one measurement would be if the corporate media talks about 'low voter turnout' as compared to other years.
It appears that an Election Boycott has not been attempted in the US before. And now with the internet and social media, it's much easier to reach people and we are!
Here's a measuring tool, for instance: Full time election boycotter Mark E Smith has an article up on his blog entitled "You've Got to Stop Voting!" The most any of his articles ever received on his little blog was 1,500 hits. Since the Election Boycott movement really kicked into high gear -- Mark is reporting that that ONE article alone hit 15,000 hits! And, it increased 2,000 hits over the last week and a half. That is indicated some interest -- or at least some curiosity about this new kid on the block -- the Election Boycott.
About two weeks ago in Belaus a very successful Electon Boycott took place -- it was so successful, in fact, that many of the polling sites were emptied! Of course the media and the state did not portray the Election Boycott as a success -- they spun it around to enhance the 'elected' leaders.
Write-in votes are often ignored, tossed or not permitted. Here is some information regarding the write-in votes that you might find interesting/informative:
It is anticipated that in 2016 the following states will not be permitted write in voting:
Arkansas, Hawaii, Louisiana, Mississippi, Nevada, Oklahoma, South Dakota
SOURCE: http://www.anamericanvision.com/info/state_certifications.php
And this, from 2008, has a list of each state that permits the write in vote and lists specific requirements:
SOURCE: http://writein2008.blogspot.com/
I clicked on my own state, NJ, and I got this response: "Write-in votes will only be tabulated if there are enough of them to contest the election."
It's all slippery and manipulated here, John.
I hope this answered your question.If you'd like to see more regarding the Election Boycott check out my own Zspace here on Z net for more.
Best regards,
Terri
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Re: Part of the Problem
By Vincent, John at Oct 11, 2012 15:21 PM
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Re: Part of the Problem
By Man, Irony at Oct 15, 2012 09:03 AM
This is all your right of course, but it is .... interesting.
Please help us, your fans, understand you better. Where does all this great rhetoric come from?
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Irony?
By Keller, Keith at Oct 16, 2012 00:17 AM
Irony Man, I keep a low profile for a variety of reasons. My ‘credentials’ are adequate but not impressive. How impressive must one’s background be to have an opinion and make comments? I prefer to be judged on my comments and blog posts rather than factors largely irrelevant to the comment itself. Is it a good comment or not? Logical and rational or not? I have experienced PhDs making ludicrous comments, apparently relying on credentials and cleverness to disguise the paucity of their ideas. Ideas, I might add, seemingly based more ideology and group solidarity than rationality. Marxists are particularly prone to this.
If I could change one thing on this thread, it would be to slightly tone done my initial comment, rephrasing the “pisses and moans” part which so upset one fellow commenter. Yet, I stand by the overall accuracy of the comment. While I greatly admire Noam Chomsky and feel that his “Hegemony or Survival” take on current affairs is highly accurate and mirrors my own feelings, I specifically commented on the posted article in which he stated that the Presidential campaigns had not addressed his two critical issues. His statement about the campaigns is simply false, Jill Stein and, I assume, other Third Party campaigns are discussing these important issues and offering solutions. This is not being adequately covered, and Chomsky himself is ignoring this alternative, contributing in his own way to suppressing information on alternatives. What I am seeing is ongoing rationalizations for de facto support for business as usual. In effect, a significant part of the professional left locked in a symbiotic relationship with business as usual, their primary emphasis on expanding their ‘radical’ niche.
Final comment. For someone interested in my background, you seem to have a stealth background. A ‘handle’ for a name, no picture, no blog posts, and just this one comment, safely appearing on this dead thread. I wasn’t even aware that I could comment using a handle instead of my name. All in all, I suspect that this is some sort of joke. I responded because I wanted to make the above clarifications in case anyone is interested.
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