to blame Bush for the destruction of New Orleans is anti-YOUR definition of intellectual, perhaps, Mr I-wont-even-give-my-name: I didnt blame Bush for the destruction of new orleans, I blame him for the poor emergency response and I cited the reasons for I do not wnat to repeat..

Thanks Mitchell for bringing up the Yes Men. I'm puzzled why no one has commented on them yet. I have been following their work since I attended a lecture by them in Amsterdam last year. They are not simple pranksters; check out their website here. They are two brilliant and dedicated individuals whose work is, I think, highly effective. Not only do they spread awareness of the issues they tackle through media attention to their actions, but they also do something they enjoy. The importance of activism that is both fun and effective cannot be overstated. Keir The Hague

Everything.

 You just don't see it because you are looking for the pea in a shell game which is palmed by government.

I claimed incompetence..

I earlier wrote:

"Maybe not a storm in a waterglass. A bucket maybe ? Though lack of aptitude on part of both local and federal people shows a distraction from important issues that is the result of commercial propaganda. We need quiet-places were they cant ruin our consentration trying to sell us things.  "

I still maintain this possible explanation as an alternative to criminal negligience. It is correct that many people go blindly subjective both left and right, and blaming republican presidents for every aspect here is foolish.

As for Cyranos "dont be a Bush apologist" That falls into this category. The netherlands had a few floods before they learned dicipline. I think you will learn. The separate ethnic groups and their differing standards of living and education is of much consern though. How cultural reenforcement can be counterproductive, together with a primitive legal system based on sharia-like principles. A lesson should be learned by the Bush-driven strategy of big SUV tax-cuts and the present problems of competing against japanese hybrids.

The problems you guys face as a nation divided are far beyond that though. Here is the deal. The endless prarie HAS been conquered, the endless supply of cheap energy IS dwindeling and space WILL be out of reach for the forseable future.

Here the USA and the muslim nations face a similar challenge. That of defeating their own rethorical suicide-traps so their populations can prosper. Louisiana is a quite corrupt state with harsh laws as us states go, no ?

The US complex is not threatened as per se. It is the prosperity of the citizenry that is in need of reforms in national and international law.

 

I assumed he meant black since the majority of the victims or the majority of population of New Orleans are blacks, I hear the same type of racist theories here about jamaicans.. Here North of your insane country, news were that rescue wasnt sent to Louisiana because Louisiana's constituents are poor blacks, I believe it. At 40, I do still look younger than your wife, isn't? You got to admit this, Haiti dictators were supported by the US, in fact the two last recent coups agaisnt the democracy there ( president Aristide) were orchestrated by terrorists group sponsored and armed by the US.. This was a plain attack on democracy..

Geez Crayno, way to add to the debate.  You sound like a teenager but looked like a 40 year old in your pics. What gives? 

 And who said anything about blacks?

It is a complete distortion of history to blame Haiti's woes, and Papa and Baby Doc on the U.S.  Papa Doc and his tyranical son were allies of Castro, also a tyrant.  While you may hate the U.S. and our government, it is lunancy to blame the world's ills on the U.S. while ignoring the rest of the world.

Spike Lee, a HUGE critic of the U.S. status quo, made a 5 hour documentary on New Orleans and the effects of Katrinia.  All of the people interviewed that stayed in New Orleans during the Hurricane did so by choice.  Not a single person who wanted to leave once the evacuation order was issued but could not was interviewed or referenced by name.  The fact is, the people who stayed in New Orleans and did not evacuate, and were subsquently effected by Hurricane Katrina did so by choice.  There is a HUGE difference between choosing not to leave prior to the storm and want to leave after the storm but being unable to because of storm damage.  The socialists on this board are confusing the two.  If you think the government should forceable remove people from their homes, then you favor a tyranical government.  (But considering the socialist history, I expect nothing less.)

If you want to discuss the failure of the levees, that is an entirely different matter, dating back to their construction in 1966.  In other words, it has NOTHING to do with President Bush.  To blame President Bush for the destruction of New Orleans, as many are doing, is simply anti-intellectual. 

Whoever said the National Guard's responsibility is protect local citizens against natural disasters is correct. And it was the National Guard that restored order to New Orleans.  The National Guard is under the command of the Governor - NOT the president (unless the Governor transfers authority).  The most appropriate question to ask is, why did the Louisiana Governor wait four days before ordering the National Guard into New Orleans? Again, it has nothing to do with George Bush or Washington, D.C. 

Further, concerning the above link, Louisiana actually has a larger GDP than the Netherlands.  Why hasn't Louisana improved the levee system?  Remember, we are not talking about a provincial system with a strong system of government.  We are talking about a REPUBLIC where state governments are to take care of state issues. If you do not understand the separation of powers or federalism, please do not comment on this.   

 

You all seem to be a very hatefull bunch, ruled by emotion, and quick to disregard reason and facts and criticize a government structure that you don't understand.

 

 

 

you wrote: Locals will party 7 nights a week - until 4 or 5 in the morning. Workers will routinely not show up for work untl 10 or 11 am when they were suppsed to start at 9 am. The workers can't be fired and new ones hired because all workers are like that. Spare me the marxist rhetoric about workers as well.

Partying 7 days a week is no big deal , I have done that months long without even sleeping, no big deal. This does not means the whole New Orleans population party 7 days a week..

Then take your President, he does not appear to have shown to work
for the past 8 years, of course we don't know whether he has been partying somewhere instead of doing a good job.. If you listen to the stupid stuffs he says, it does look like he is an average asshole, a slacker, he is the usual freeloader who is drunk on your booze and feeding on "free food", he fits the freeloader character you often find at your neighbor's BBQ. In 72 he was totally missing from his military services, apparently he was absent for over 8 months.. may be he even got paid while absent of his military service.

And then, for you Blacks should be fired because they are late to work, but a president that is completely "physically and mentally absent" from doing his jobs shouldn't get fired.. Bush by all means, is the biggest US welfare recipient of the decade, but its ok he shouldnt get fired.

No wonder some black people try to evades their responsibilities, look at the irresponsible behaviors your president set for examples

If the swamps are a long way from Ottawa, they are regardless closer to GWB's house partys..

To blame Haiti's woes on the U.S. is sheer ignorace.  Papa Doc and Baby Doc were much closer to Castro then the U.S.  You may hate the U.S., but blaming the world's ills on America is lunacy. 

Regardless, those who stayed in New Orleans during Hurricane Katriana did so VOLUNTARLY.  That cannot be disputed.  Stop saying otherwise.  To say otherwise is to simply make up facts.  Spike Lee made a 5 hour documentary on the disaster.  Not a single person interviewed who stayed in New Orleans said they did so against their will.  Everyone said they stayed because they wanted to.  If you think the goverment should be able to force people from their homes, you have a desire for tyranny.  There is a huge difference between wanting to leave prior to the storm and wanting to leave after the storm while waiting in the Superdome. Don't get the two confused.

If you want to discuss the failures of the levees (as the above link did), that is another issue.  That is something that goes back to 1966 (I believe) when the levees were built.  It has NOTHING to do with George Bush.  Stop saying so. You are being reactionary and a zealot.  It is devoid of intellect.   

I wonder if any of you have ever tried, or known anyone who has ever tried to conduct business in New Orleans.  There is a culture of partying in that town, plain and simple. Locals will party 7 nights a week - until 4 or 5 in the morning.  Workers will routinely not show up for work untl 10 or 11 am when they were suppsed to start at 9 am.  The workers can't be fired and new ones hired because all workers are like that.  Spare me the marxist rhetoric about workers as well.  When work needs to get done, it needs to get done.  I remember a New Yorker telling me in New York he was considered a bum but in New Orleans he was a workaholic.  The point is, New Orleans, while rich in music, had a culture of sloth.  I'm not condemning New Orleans for that, but you have to understand what you're dealing with down there.  The swamps are a long way from Ottawa.

 

keir very nice post and very nice link that sum it up: I like also like this report: It is interesting therefore to look at President Bush's remarks after touring New Orleans on September 2nd after four days of inaction. His first sentence was “ I've just completed a tour of some devastated country”. A detached statement but it gets worse – a little later he says “I know the people of this part of the world are suffering…” and he goes on to talk about how progress is being made. Then he says “ The people in this part of the world have got to understand…” Shortly after this, he says “You know, I'm going to fly out of here in a minute, but I want you to know that I'm not going to forget what I've seen” and again refers to his constituents as “good folks of this part of the world”. It is almost as if he is in a different country consoling its citizenry. He himself is so detached about what is happening in the very country he leads that he refers to it as “this part of the world”. As far as I know, no one in the mainstream media picked this up, they too are reporting on that “part of the world”. I should have added the US used to be a land for the Braves and righteous.. nowadays meeting a Cherokee becomes a rare event.

I never answered because your guesses did not deserve a answer, but since you feel like forcing me, what do you want me to do, want me to brag ? I belong where evr I feel its right to belong , i go and belong always, essentially this position is on the side of the poor and I will never belong with the hateful. does my answer satisfy you now?

sorry I misspelled: You can't rely on your President (and Congress) to do the right things, never mind relying on the military... anonymous, you are are concerned about rules when you have general emergency and then you do not have any concern about rules when every international laws are broken to sustain illegal invasions and occupations.. Takes only one phone call to send the military, but you can't send them if your military is absent..

Cryano, you never answered this question on another thread. Please do so.

 

I'm guessing psychologically you feel that you "don't belong," and socialist organizations, which proport to represent the downtrodden and outsiders, have accepted you.  Hence your zeal for all things leftist - someone has finally accepted you.   Am I close?

Listen you dumbasses, there are rules and procedures to be followed.  It is called jurisdiction.  That is a fact of life. To ignore those rules and procedures is to ignore the rule of law.  If the Feds had swooped in and taken over New Orleans, there would have been just as many complaints that the rules and procedures were ignored.  There would have been an increase in liability.  The government would have failed if the rules and procedures had been ignored.  It is called "checks and balances" and it is designed to avoid the tyranny that socialist governments have created throughout history.  It is really easy to argue emotions; "what about the children?" or "people died" when you don't know how the system works.  The fact is, the war on terrorism has nothing to do with New Orleans in the context of Katrina.

You can rely on your President (an Congress) to do the right thing, never mind relying on the military... The way the american society was mobilized for war is plain treason.. Truly the brave have disapeared you are only left with greed..

You quoted

It was the National Guard that arrived in New Orleans four days after the fact, not the Army

Whatever army, marines, national guard n whatever military got there, got there 4 days too late and in unsufficient number.. its a disaster happening to american people and the issue of state or federal jurisdiction becomes only an issue if you decide to make it an issue, this if you want to avoid blaming the incompetence of the Bush adminsitration. The real issue was the flood in New Orleans. and so are you willing to argue with me that New Orleans dont pay federal taxes or fund the military ?

Any accusation of "corporate wars" in this instance is pure ignorance. I

I dont know, you're fast pointing ou my ignorance but very vacuuouswith showing what I ignore for facts..

One fact I could show you, is that honeywell make cluster bombs, make money and you don't. petro chemical corporation make a bigger profit since the war and you don't..
You should look into it, I think you are suffering an insane mental patriotism; On observation you appear to be kissing the asses of the neocon elite that is economically and ideologically sodomizing your country..and I tell you what, may be you should replace the stars of the US flag with condoms, mainly condoms could be the only thing that will protect you while being screwed(repeat)

i don't see the point of your arguing, nearly all of califonia forest burned and over half of the state of new orleans nearly drowned and you are still debating whether it is under a state or federal issue, I dont know may be you should tell new orleans people that lost their houses that they are now stronger than before; and see if they care..

Um, there IS a difference between the National Guard and the Army.

The National Guard answers to the Governor.  The Army answers to the President. Authority over the National Guard can be transfered to the President with the consent of the Governor. 

It was the National Guard that arrived in New Orleans four days after the fact, not the Army. Thus, it was a state issue, not a federal issue.  Any accusation of "corporate wars" in this instance is pure ignorance.  

jesuzzzes thats an idiotic statement.. with you mister, americans should not use its own social infrastructures and own safety measures because you feel its better used fighting "corporate" wars you will nevr rip a benefit from.. This kinda make american people two time loosers: * American pay military resources to launch wars on some foreign country so some corporate power can make a profit * You can't even rely on military resources when disasters, military rescources americans paid for. Tell me is there anything your president does for americans other than say the stupidest things and render ordinary americans more poors? It does seem like, its no longer what you can do for your country, its more like what Bush can do for the corporate profit of a few. I don't if you keep going with your line of thinking, americans are going to be living bankrupted in trailer parks.. and it is not like we didnt warn you..

Actually the precise role of the US national Guard IS to protect communities from natural and man made disasters.  It is NOT to fight in foriegn wars.  Again you speak of something you know nothing about. 

The United States Army does not have the responsibilty to save STATES from fires, floods, nor famine. 

If you think otherwise, you are unaware of:

1. the seperation of powers

2. the U.S. Constitution and the powers granted in it

3. U.S. history that would show why FEDERAL troops should not be taking care of state issues

It's amazing how you socialists complain about the federal government, but then want the feds to take care of all the problems in the world.  If you socialists were consistent with your views, and truely believed that local problems should be solved locally, i.e., through the collective, you wouldn't want the feds to step in and solve the problems of incompetent local officials.

 

Though lack of aptitude on part of both local and federal people shows a distraction from important issues that is the result of commercial propaganda. Usually only the army has the resources to rescue people, dont be an apologist for GWB; sending his dad on TV do prayers to the masses in lieu of sending rescue is pretty much evanletical anti-christ. troops, my friends, new orleans people needed the troop, not local authorites, don't deflect the blame off the GWB where it stick best because it tantamount to a treasonous act toward the american people. Children was were dying because of him.. And then , I don't know if you recall a year earlier, the fires in California and Oregon, same thing.. the whole california was burning and no soldiers in sight to help.. I guess cover up propaganda that avoid blaming the guilty one work best.. praise it made new orlean people stronger and prayer replaced logic. That is a betrayal of your people

Maybe not a storm in a waterglass. A bucket maybe ? Though lack of aptitude on part of both local and federal people shows a distraction from important issues that is the result of commercial propaganda. We need quiet-places were they cant ruin our consentration trying to sell us things. 

as usual , you miss the point..first there were alarms that katrina was too big a-storm, bigger than anticipated, secondly, the task response was absent.. There were no emergency task force that came to the rescue of people, this was the embarassment. The US army responsible for this type of emergency was too busy somewhere else killing children and re- liberating cities in Iraq and Afghanistan. These are countries in which the US are not welcome. The national guards went too late in NO and it was understaffed.. I recall GB ( the father ) and his wife, doing the "religious speech and prayers on TV ( propaganda to the voting religious right) in lieu of providing a rescue which was unable to come because GWB fckd up and few soldiers to defend your country.. Your army was doing something else than being at the service of your country or to its people..your president had mobilized US wealth and resources for the benefits of his friends instead of to the benefit of your country. In fact Bush is indebting american tax payers and he is draining your social infractures. The result is that the wealth is being channelized to sustain the war machine corporate profeeterers. another embarassment is that Bush does not take on environment and global warming issues.. hey you get what you voted for..

The destruction of New Orleans by a Hurricane was not a matter of "if" but a matter of "when." The fact remains the people of New Orleans put themselves in danger by choosing to live in that City and kept themselves in danger by refusing to leave. The mayor of New Orleans failed to act in removing people in a timely manner and failed prior to that by not having a plan to evacuate people who everyone knew would at some point be underwater. The Governor of Louisiana equally failed at the state level. It took her four days to get National Guard troops into the City and stabalize the situation. Next you're going to ask that we feel sorry for people in California who built their homes on fault lines.

What does any of what you said have to do with Hurricane Katrina?

 

 

All "civil societies" / governments throughout all recorded history have been about one thing and one thing only deciding who gets (all) the money.

 Humanity has refused to accept that truth, as governments used religion - race - gender - national origin to devide the people and steal the wealth for the kings and politicians.

well its very simple solution, he says that the victims survivors of katrina are way stronger, because the hurricane made them stonger.. damn, I live in canada and when I tuned my TV, I saw ordinary people..but i guess praising peoples and his dad paryersw for the victims is being seen as a suffient presidential job for the americans to lazy to think a minute..

While from a social perspective Hurricane Katrina has much to say, and it may have hurt Bush's and the Republican's standing in certain circles, from an economic perspective, the hurricane was just a blip. I highly doubt it will be viewed as a fulcrum event in American history. It will soon be just a trivia question about the costliest natural disaster in American history.

The evidence: The US GDP is about $13.5 TRILLION. The hurricane damage resulted in about $80 billion of damage, well under 1% of total GDP. The number of people affected by the hurricane is also well under 1% of the US Population of nearly 300 million. And unfortunately, most of those affected were poor, further blunting the economic damage to the country. The rebuilding process has only stimulated economic growth (I mean from a macro perspective, I understand that individual people and families are suffering).