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Justin Podur's Blog

Web Address: http://www.zcommunications.org/zspace/justinpodur
Bio: Justin Podur is a writer and editor for ZNet (www.zmag.org), part of Z Communications, an alternative media organization dedicated to political analysis and support for movements for social change.... (More)

All Podur Blogs

Moral Equivalence?

By Justin Podur at Jul 28, 2006


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From my blog at The Killing Train Rahul had a very good blog post discussing the doctrine of 'collateral damage' and the related doctrine of 'moral equivalence'. The idea is that they intentionally kill civilians, and we accidentally kill them. So, even though we kill hundreds or thousands and they kill dozens, they are morally inferior. Indeed, they are morally inferior twice over, because first of all, they kill civilians on purpose, and second of all, they force us (poor us!) to kill civilians because we are trying to kill them, and they keep hanging around all these civilians all the damned time. This is, as Rahul says, a jumble of racist and incoherent arguments. Let us try to disentangle this jumble. First, let's take the idea that they target civilians and we don't. This is false. We target civilians all the time. Leave aside the bombing of civilian infrastructure and the wholesale destruction of civilian areas, like Jenin Camp in 2002, because we can still argue that we visited all this destruction while trying to get at people we didn't like. We deliberately target civilians for murder. Israeli snipers fire straight into the centre of the Red Crosses on Red Cross trucks. They have shot children and administered a coup de grace at close range, in Gaza. In Iraq, Rahul took a photo of ambulances in Fallujah with nice clean bullet holes through the driver's side. And of course, there was the recent murder of the UN observers. Canadian Prime Minister Harper defiled the Canadian who died their as he defiled the other Canadians who Israel has killed by saying that he doesn't think the UN post was targeted. He won't pay any political price for making the statement. But it is still worth noting that he says so from Canada, and Robert Fisk, who is in Lebanon, described their killing this way:
In past years, I have spent hours with their comrades in this UN position, which is clearly marked in white and blue paint, with the UN's pale blue flag opposite the Israeli frontier. Their duty was to report on all they saw: the ruthless Hizbollah missile fire out of Khiam and the brutal Israeli response against the civilians of Lebanon. Is this why they had to die, after being targeted by the Israelis for eight hours, their officers pleading to the Israeli Defence Forces that they cease fire? An American-made Israeli helicopter saw to that.
Second, Rahul points out that evidence we offer that Hizbullah targets civilians is that they use inaccurate weapons. This means either that 1) When we use our accurate weapons to kill civilians we are doing so on purpose, or 2) We are using inaccurate weapons and killing civilians, in which case we are condemning Hizbullah for doing something we do more of. The third argument for the moral superiority of our killing of more people is that they are cowardly because they are around civilians, forcing us to kill them. About this argument, Jonathan Cook had this to say:
The UN head of humanitarian affairs, Jan Egeland, who is in the region, accused Hizbullah of “cowardly blending” among the civilian population, and a similar accuation was levelled by the British foreign minister Kim Howells when he arrived in Israel. In 2002 Israel made the same charge: that Palestinians resisting its army's rampage through the refugee camps of the West Bank were hiding among civilians. The claim grew louder as more Palestinian civilians showed the irritating habit of gettting in the way of Israeli strikes against population centres. The complaints reached a crescendo when at least two dozen civilians were killed in Jenin as Israel razed the camp with Apache helicopters and Caterpillar bulldozers. The implication of Egeland's cowardly statement seems to be that any Lebanese fighter, or Palestinian one, resisting Israel and its powerful military should stand in an open field, his rifle raised to the sky, waiting to see who fares worse in a shoot-out with an Apache helicopter or F-16 fighter jet.
Of course, in the prison of Palestine, Palestinian fighters do exactly that. They have no cover and no way of hiding from Israel's armaments and complete surveillance. So they fire their puny weapons in order to show defiance, and to ensure that Israeli soldiers cannot operate with complete impunity on the ground, but instead need to hide in their armored vehicles. They are then slaughtered. But this does not win them any points with us, either. Our reaction is every bit as vulgar and racist in that case as it is in others. Mitch Potter from the Toronto Star, a truly disgusting racist, was quoted by Dan Freeman-Maloy likening Palestinians to rodents, a standard racist analogy, for facing the Israeli army on open ground: '“Another batch of Palestinian militants drawn out lemming-like and falling by the dozen to higher-calibre Israeli fire, just like their predecessors.” [For Potter to call Palestinians lemmings is certainly ironic].' I recently heard that a Canadian general named Lewis MacKenzie has said that yes, Israel has killed hundreds, but considering the weaponry that Israel has this is a low figure, and that if Hizbullah had this kind of armament, Israel would be a parking lot. MacKenzie's argument, restated, is that the imbalance in numbers killed is actually much less than the actual military imbalance. Lebanese and Palestinians should take comfort, then, because Israel could be killing many, many more of them. And Israelis should be afraid, because even though they can't, Hizbullah really wants to kill us all. MacKenzie is, in addition to being a general, a mind-reader. Jonathan Cook's answer to this:
In fact, although no one is making the point, Hizbullah's rockets have been targeted overwhelming at strategic locations: the northern economic hub of Haifa, its satellite towns and the array of military sites across the Galilee. Nasrallah seems fully aware that Israel has an impressive civil defence program of shelters that keep most civilians out of harm's way. Unlike Horowitz I won't presume to read Nasrallah's mind: whether he wants to kill large numbers of Israeli civilians or not cannot be known, given his inability to do so.
Rahul's blog post concludes with the idea that the doctrine of "collateral damage" must be discarded because it is incompatible with the rules of war and the Geneva Conventions. The jumble of "moral equivalence", meanwhile, when unpacked, is false on every single count.
Person

the big picture is missing

By Kissenger, Clark at Aug 01, 2006 16:19 PM

Beyond the extraordinary over-attention given to affairs in the Middle East, are the usual realities which are neglected. In the case of political encampments like Z, these realities are viewed as absolute heresy. The following is general but with plenty of "moral" relevance. Reality one, human nature is rarely "humane". Reality two, the closer a group's culture is to our earlier anything-goes triba culture, the more brutal it is. Recent books by Steven Pinker have revealed some of the sober realities of non-modern tribes (and the liberal backlash, www.anth.ucsb.edu/chagnon.html). Exhibit A here is Islam. Take an honest look at the treatment of women, nature, and outsiders amongst Islamic cultures. It isn't subtle but it is politely not-talked about in the main stream media or social science research and the left uses this as some kind of validation. See if you can find even tacit acknowledgement of any of the sober observations amongst years of Chomsky's work. Under the recent onslaught of Islamic violence newspapers like the NYT have opened up some on this. A recent NYT piece, "The Bride Price" looked at the selling of young girls in Afganistan. The younger the higher the price. Nicholas Kristof has had a number of similiar pieces. A recent NYT article interviewed Palestian jihad'ers living in Syria. Basically the relentless theme was kill anything asociated with team Israel-US or team Shia. Wonderful bunch. Then there was a piece also on an ex-Moslem now living in California giving her scorching view of Islamic culture. She had brilliant analogies on how profoundly different Israeli culture was from Moslem culture, starting with their lack of violent response to the Germans after WW II. She might have also mentioned that it isn't wise to have 8 kids as recent reports suggested Palestian couple are. And of course she has received death threats. Reality three, is that the dominant form of human terrrorism is anti-terrorism. The role-back on death in the last 100 years has been biggest factor for life on the planet (a plus for us, very negative for the rest of nature). See any meaningful scientific assessment - you might start with the September 2005 issue of Scientific American. How did the relentless disease-misery package get rolled back? And who did it? That is how we quadrupled the population and that is how the Middle East - in particular the Moslem portion - has rapidly grown its population (and beyond its ability to support it or wisdom to restrain it). A small but significant example would be the work of former President Jimmy Carter. To someone like Chomsky, he was at least a half-time Nazi (in a Nazi-like country like our own). In fact he has greatly reduced human disease-born suffering on a scale of millions. How would the Moslem's of the Middle East survive if people didn't buy the oil they were living over (and can't extract for themselves)? We should get off the oil (and it is easy) and that would leave a profound survival situation in the Middle East. Look around your residence and make a pile of all the things you have that were made or designed in Moslem countries in the Middle East. Better yet see if you can identify a single life saving technology developed by these people. The best situation for Israel/Israeli's is to get the hell out of the Middle East. Move to North Dakota (it would help the US) and leave the violent and dysfunctional Islamic people's in the Middle East to perhaps struggle and improve their way of life and future. As is, their existence just allows the Moslems a reason to re-enrage themselves (a Z-thing). If the military strength's were reversed the Israeli's would be slaughtered and many Moslems would celebrate. Yes, it is that subtle. Chomsky has an appropriate Sudan-who's-the-terrorist piece. I will comment directly on that later. Here it is worth pointing out that he misses the obvious. Who put the pharmaceutical plant there in the first place? Who's humanitarian interests allowed Sudan's life expectancy to drop during the last century? What were the lifestyle norms there say a couple of hundred years ago (the real ones, not the social science BS)? Which countries even care about what is going on Sudan now? What if anything have the Moslem countries done for Sudan? What did they do when West Pakistan went to slaughter off East Pakistan?

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Person

Racism in the media

By Kissenger, Clark at Aug 01, 2006 11:11 AM

Thanks for a good post, and the initial post was also very good. Racism is, sadly, all over the media. It needs to be stressed over and over again, so that we one day hopefully can get rid of it. Organisations like FAIR are great for addressing this, and we need more like them. They are doing an impressive job, but it's limited what a few people can do and watch. Some media analyzing wouldn't hurt either. For instance in the early coverage of the war on Lebanon at least here in Norway they almost without exception first showed impacts in Israel from Hizbollah's rockets, then went to Lebanon to show the massive destruction from American-made Israeli bombs. This was a trick I suppose to try to make the case that Hizbollah strikes first, then Israel retaliates, by cheap TV tricks. Just to add on your comment about Israel deliberately killing civillians and overtly breaking the Geneva Conventions. A week or so ago the Norwegian doctor Mads Gilbert came back from Lebanon, and almost shockingly got to appear on primetime-TV with his experiences. He showed a picture of a brand new ambulance with a bullethole in the window back where the patient is laying. He then said this was a shot from an Israeli sniper. I don't know what a bullethole from a sniper-rifle looks like, but that hole was mighty big, so he was probably telling the truth as far as I could tell. Fortunetely nobody were in the ambulance at that moment, but it goes to show that Israel have no guilt about shooting at civilians, not even at rescue personel. This is strictly forbinnen by the Geneva Conventions, and this is happening fairly often by the looks of things. I'd love to see an overview, if available anywhere about the number of Hizbollah rocket-hits at/near military sites and strategically important sites, and hits at/near civilian population centres. If we were to believe the media Hizbollah haven't fired a single rocket at military sites (we would hardly know they existed based on media reports), but based on what I've seen creap through the Israeli sencorship Hizbollah are mainly firing at military and strategically important sites. The media is just very lousy to report these things. The only mention I've seen here about their attack on the Israeli warship recently was a short notice on text-TV for instance. The last majour attack on an Israeli warship wasn't covered much better either. Then, of course, there is no analysis whatsoever (apart from military advice to Israel) about the reasons for the conflict, the bigger picture, the US-Israeli plans etc etc. This does not exist in the Western media as far as I can tell.

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Person

Thanks Justin

By Kissenger, Clark at Jul 28, 2006 19:49 PM

Thanks for this post Justin. It is very good. It will prove helpful I am sure in future discussions. Also appreciated Rahul's piece. I think the points you and he make need to be made consistently. The racism buried in the language used---even unwittingly by many---to describe the US and Israeli state terror in the region effectively allows people to get away with murder.

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Person

Killing Civilians

By Kissenger, Clark at Jul 28, 2006 18:08 PM

Killing civilians is a time-honoured act of warfare. You kill civilians to produce terror and increased anxiety in the general populace so that they will in turn be induced through their fear to pressure the existing government to abandon its war. Great political pressure is derived from such acts, and both sides readily employ the tactic....because it works. The Dark Empire has used this tactic directly or via proxies on many many occasions - WWII against the Germans, South/Central America, Vietnam, Afghanistan, and now Iraq and Lebanon. And the cycle of death and hatred goes on...and on.

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