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Justin Podur's Blog

Web Address: http://www.zcommunications.org/zspace/justinpodur
Bio: Justin Podur is a writer and editor for ZNet (www.zmag.org), part of Z Communications, an alternative media organization dedicated to political analysis and support for movements for social change.... (More)

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Robot counterinsurgencies

By Justin Podur at Feb 04, 2007


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I picked up a copy of Harper's on the road. Two articles caught my interest. The first, by Edward Luttwak of the Center for Strategic and International Studies, on counterinsurgency, and the other by freelance writer Steve Featherstone, on "the coming robot army". The counterinsurgency article was more interesting, so I'll deal with it second. Featherstone's piece on robots describes in scary detail the operation of the next generation of remote-control military equipment. There are already unmanned drones of all kinds, but the next generation has more power: robots that can climb walls, coordinate with other camera-carrying, intelligence-gathering robots to create a complete picture of the battlefield. The robots are part of a "kill chain" that will enable the US military (which is the only one I think could afford such things) to inflict more casualties and do more damage with reduced casualties. The generation of robots after this one will be able to make decisions and operate quite independently of remote control. Featherstone extrapolates ethical issues that I don't think are the right ones. He raises a hypothetical: suppose a drone, following orders, kills a family in the home of an insurgent. Who is responsible? I don't think this is such a complex issue: it has never been the case that soldiers who commit war crimes are solely culpable. It has always been the case that militaries (and bureaucracies) are organized specifically to diffuse responsibility away from individuals. So people who make the decision to go to war are culpable just as soldiers are. And to the degree that a society is democratic, we're all culpable to the degree that we have the power to change a policy and don't. What I wonder though is whether the robotification of the army has limits. Does the complexity and expense of the organization of an army that uses robots heavily create vulnerabilities? Is such an organization good at some things and not others? And, leading into Luttwak's article, given that no military can stand against the US military and we're talking about an army that will be fighting relatively defenceless populations, what are the effects of using such an army on a population? Luttwak's argument is as follows. Counterinsurgency is a political and not a military problem and so the astounding and increasing firepower the US brings to bear in Iraq (or Afghanistan), and its ability to kill without taking casualties (which the US population is sensitive to) becomes irrelevant in the face of insurgents who will hide among the population, passively protected by the population, rather than fight against vastly superior firepower. Why does the population support insurgents, Luttwak asks? Because the insurgents are willing to out-terrorize the occupier. Cooperation with the occupier is punished with terrible reprisals. The political solution to this, used by the Romans, the Ottomans, the Nazis, is to be willing to out-terrorize the insurgents. Some high profile massacres will do the job, but the US, because of principled opposition to massacres, won't do so. The only thing that might help the US if it is unwilling to out-terrorize, is to be willing to govern. But since the US wants to leave governance to the locals, its counterinsurgency program is doomed. I thought about this a while before I could identify the problems with it, and there are several. The first is that it assumes that the US has benevolent intentions - Luttwak says that the problem is that Iraqis and Afghans prefer local oppression to the freedoms brought by occupiers. But Luttwak knows that empires (from the Romans to the Nazis) don't occupy for benevolent reasons. From the assumption of benevolent empires, it is natural to suggest that support for insurgency comes from terrorizing the population. The reality is more complex. Reprisals are part of the picture, to be sure. So is nationalism, dignity, vengeance against the occupier, and legitimacy, which Eqbal Ahmad, for example, emphasized in his writings on anti-colonial warfare. Third, the assumption that principle prevents the US from massacring people is false. The US did massacre people in Fallujah, mainly for the demonstrative reasons that Luttwak argues the US would never massacre. There is something to the idea that communication of atrocities to populations with a degree of control over decision-makers can reduce atrocities (something that didn't exist in Roman or Ottoman times). But if that communication must take place through centralized media corporations and propaganda systems that are part of the system of power, that frees empires to commit the demonstrative massacres Luttwak argues would bring places like Iraq under control. If Luttwak is wrong, a couple of possibilities follow. One is that Iraq is, for US purposes, under control. That's hard to believe, but I do think the current situation is more beneficial to the Bush regime, and those who wanted the war in Iraq in the first place, than many think. The alternative though is that the reason US counterinsurgency "fails" (and I repeat that I think it's more successful than many) is for some reason other than its unwillingness to terrorize. I think it is probably a question of legitimacy - but Iraq, like Palestine, is a place where anyone with any legitimacy is targeted for destruction by the empire. When no one has legitimacy, there is chaos. And chaos, while it may not be as good for empire as stable imperial control, might be a good imperial second choice.
Person

yep Justin, may be you are

By Kissenger, Clark at Feb 09, 2007 19:15 PM

yep Justin, may be you are right, I should ignore them since most are apologists of infanticides and war crimes committed on behalf of US profiteers. ------ Yesterday, I was at Pacific Mall where a lady recognized "chairman mao " as being a person whom tried to make chinese people lives as equal.. in her homeland, she knew a lot of people whom lived and survived because of mao.. we can't say mao didnt try.

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Person

to cyrano

By Kissenger, Clark at Feb 07, 2007 23:49 PM

Hey Cyrano, I honestly wouldn't bother engaging these trolls. As I said in my reply to SGTR (one of very few I'll bother with), their sole purpose is to drag people into useless debates. This is *our* forum, one in which we should feel free to discuss our ideas, not a place where we should have to respond to nonsense and abuse from people whose purposes are to annoy and divert us from more fruitful discussions. I think their kind of abuse and yes, racism, has already driven many off of the board. I'd encourage you to ignore them, especially since I'll be deleting those who are uncivil or whose contributions I find to be really pollution.

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Person

re : Harper

By Kissenger, Clark at Feb 07, 2007 20:20 PM

Justin , if I am correct Harper stated : The political solution to this, used by the Romans, the Ottomans, the Nazis, is to be willing to out-terrorize the insurgents. Some high profile massacres will do the job, but the US, because of principled opposition to massacres, won't do so. I disagree with the statement, the US may have principled opposition to massacres in words but it does the opposite in actions.. here , I'll give a few examples ( or exceptions): * The increasing military in Iraq * The destruction of Fallujah * The recent attack on Lebanon with US sponsorship and support of Israel agression at the UN by the US. As usual, the US is main antagonist of peace by constantly manufacturing weapons of violence and destruction, the robots are just another example. ( few years ago, I dreamed of war of humans against robots, so I find the article interesting)

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Person

SGTR wrote: it is documented

By Kissenger, Clark at Feb 07, 2007 19:58 PM

SGTR wrote: it is documented fact that the Third Reich went to the middle east during the 30s and 40s, established plans with the Arab rulers to eliminate the local jews, and many of the regimes of the middle east admired the Nazi government? 1) show me the plans 2) america loved Hitler more than the middle east did. 3) if there were love for the third reich in the middle east its because a lot or arabs were fed- up of the British imperialist rulers.. not selling oil to the US and Britain is not fascist.

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Person

Re : SGTR 's islamo fascist..

By Kissenger, Clark at Feb 07, 2007 11:22 AM

Sgtr there is not such thing as islamo fascist.. there are muslim whom would love to have their society being ruled by religious principle and as such if their majority rule for such a society; it is their choice..and not the choice of a fascist america to make.

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Person

What is racist about the

By Rbarnich, Bobo at Feb 07, 2007 10:26 AM

What is racist about the term "Islamofascist?"  One, they have a national socialist ideology, and two, it is documented fact that the Third Reich went to the middle east during the 30s and 40s, established plans with the Arab rulers to eliminate the local jews, and many of the regimes of the middle east admired the Nazi government?

Besides, all I did was raise the point that you are criticizing the U.S. for whatever it does, damned if does, damned if it doesn't. How is that racist?   

 

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Person

FYI, interesting musings by

By Kissenger, Clark at Feb 07, 2007 09:55 AM

FYI, interesting musings by George Orwell (on what Howard Zinn among others considers the pivotal event of the 20'th century) in this essay about "the great age of democracy and of national self-determination" and his fears for the new epoch that might lie in store...

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Person

stifling the voices of opposition

By Kissenger, Clark at Feb 06, 2007 20:09 PM

Just so you know, SGTR, yes, I don't have any intention of tolerating racist garbage in this forum. You don't bother standing behind what you say with your real name (I do), your content brings the level of discussion far, far down, and I don't see any reason why I should allow it. I'll leave this here as an explanation - but in case your posts get deleted, you'll know why. The above post ("Islamofascism", etc.) is the sort of post I will happily delete in future. If you enjoy disrupting discussions in leftist forums, find another place to do it... --Justin

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Person

Interesting

By Kissenger, Clark at Feb 06, 2007 03:42 AM

"become an American and learn the ways of tolerance, democracy, and freedom - would he take it?" He would learn that in America? Interesting indeed.

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Person

Hmm, maybe I can repost

By Tbarnich, Tb at Feb 05, 2007 21:57 PM

Hmm, maybe I can repost what I originally said seeing there is a 2nd post.  It's interesting that the U.S. is damned for being benevolent in trying to rid the mid-east of dictators, and the U.S. is damned for creating chaos.  It appears in your view the U.S. can do no good, only harm. 

My girlfriend and I were talking the other day, she was wondering if you gave some Islamofascist, say one of the cannon fodder in Hezbollah, a one-way ticket to NYC with one condition - become an American and learn the ways of tolerance, democracy, and freedom - would he take it?  We think yes.  What do you think?

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Person

Where's my original comment?

By Commonsense321, Eddie at Feb 05, 2007 13:59 PM

What do you do, delete comments you don't like?  What was wrong with my first comment?  One could very easily say it is typical of a leftist to snuff any voice of opposition.  Good job.

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