To:

Zcom_simple
Home » Z Blogs » Noam Chomsky's Blog » The Pentagon Papers

Hello,

Blogs are a familiar feature on the internet - where users post content in an accumulating manner, with comments, and search options, etc. They facilitate expression and exploration, and via attached comments, also debate and synthesis.


Reading and
Navigating Blogs

Our blogs are quite powerful. Each writer can post, as is typically the case. Sustainers who have the option can also post, however. All Blogs appear in the blog system, and sometimes also in content boxes the top page of ZNet - and always via the left menu of the top page - and can be found via searches, etc.

Commenting on blogs follows the blogs, attached at the bottom, and blog comments, like all others, are also visible in many places that show comments including in the forum system. In addition, the entire blog system gathers content for everyone - but one can look at the accumulating content in many ways.

  • For example one can look at one writer's efforts - so one is seeing what is effectively a blog system for that one writer, or Sustainer.
  • One can also look at the content by topic, seeing blogs that are tagged as being about a certain topic - or place, as well. Thus, when doing that, it is a blog system about a topic, or a place, with many contributors.
  • One can look at only writer blogs, or only sustainer blogs, as well.
  • One can look at blogs for particular Groups, too.

All this is easily done using the left menu. Searches allow even more variables and refinements.


Creating Blog Posts

If you are a Sustainer with permission, and are logged in, you will see a link in the left menu for you to post a blog - and you can use that to post one, and then tag it various ways (such as with a topic or place, or a group tag), and once you do, it is in the system with you as the author.

You can also use the console button to the left to post a blog - anytime and from anywhere in the site, as long as you are logged in.

Meanwhile, enjoy the blogs - and, by the way, if you are a Free Member or a Sustainer with a ZSpace page, of course you can put one or more content boxes on it, pulling blog links of any sort you may want to filter for, for example, by you or by your friends or by others - and by topic, about places, for groups, etc.

Blogs

9

Noam Chomsky's Blog

Web Address: http://www.zcommunications.org/zspace/noamchomsky
Bio: (More)

All Chomsky Blogs

Recent Chomsky Content

Znetarticle_icon ZNet Articles
Zmagarticle_icon ZMag Articles
Zcommentary_icon ZCommentaries
Zaudio_icon ZAudios
Zvideo_icon ZVideos
Zblogpost_icon Blog Posts
Zbook_icon Books
Zvideo_icon ZStores

The Pentagon Papers

By Noam Chomsky at May 18, 2005

PDF Version

Printer Friendly Version
Change Text Size a- | A+
All four volumes have plenty of material on the war against South Vietnam (which of course they call the "defense of South Vietnam"). There is more in the 17 volumes released shortly after by Congress, and a lot more in the State Department documentation released later. I reviewed the two versions of the Pentagon Papers in For Reasons of State (1973), recently republished, including what the Gravel edition had about operations in the South; quite a lot. Reviewed the later releases in Rethinking Camelot, 1993, shortly after they appeared. In both case using lots of other material about the US war in the South as well, notably province studies, which have been quite revealing, from Jeffrey Race in 1969 until the present. It's true that the main focus of planning was on the bombing of the North. The much worse attack on the South involved very little planning, as far as the record shows. That difference shows up sharply also in the protests that finally developed: elite protests were almost entirely directed against the bombing of the North, and that was also largely true of the principled anti-war movement. I presume the basic reason is that the South was almost completely defenseless, so the war against it carried little cost for the US (apart, that is, the soldiers who were killed, wounded, serious affected by US chemical warfare, etc., but those are marginal issues for planners). In contrast, the bombing of the North had potentially quite serious costs. It involved bombing an important internal Chinese railroad that passed through North Vietnam, Haiphong harbor where there were Russian ships, Hanoi and areas around it where there were European Embassies and a lot of observers, etc. Could have had serious international complications, unlike the far more devastating war against the South. The same was true of the bombing of North Vietnam below the 20th parallel, which apparently turned it into a wasteland and the "secret war" in northern Laos, another monstrosity, but carrying little cost for the US, therefore not worthy of much attention.

Comment On This Blog Post  See All Comments (21)

Person

Re: The Pentagon Papers

By Adabanasik, Ap2k at Jun 15, 2005 01:50 AM
Palestinians, when it comes to US support of the Israeli occupation of their land, they know the truth, but they can't stop the US. However, the US government has put enormous effort in preventing the truth from reaching the majority of Americans, knowing very well that if the truth was out, their actions would have to be stopped. The same goes for other countries US invaded… In addition to misinformation and ignorance, people also fall prey to distractions and allow themselves to be pitted against each other, arguing about irrelevant details and overlooking the greater cause. Solidarity and unity is the only solution. I have witnessed a miracle as a teenager: the Polish people (led by an peaceful underground organization: the Solidarity movement) overcame Soviet dominance and oppression against all odds. The Soviet-sponsored government in Poland was much more ruthless and brutal than the US government, but because the people rose up TOGETHER, we won. The same is possible in the US, Britain, EU and the whole world. The key is that it is only possible by uniting and concentrating on the common cause – taking the power back to ALL the people and away from the few that now hold it. Arguing will get us nowhere and will give more time to those few powerful people to gain more strength. Learn history (as it certainly repeats itself) and look to the future with hope! You are all needed!!!

Reply this comment

Person

Re: The Pentagon Papers

By Adabanasik, Ap2k at Jun 15, 2005 01:20 AM
Imperialism is evil – this we can all agree on. But imperialism was not created by America – it just happens to be America's turn (in the world history timeline) to be the imperial power. I agree that Americans have been fairly compliant in the crimes against humanity perpetrated by their government, but it is not because they're American or because they don't care…the issue is too complex to discuss in a blog. The bottom line is that power corrupts, therefore the more power you have, the more corruption – moral perversion or impairment of virtue and moral principles (imperialism being the most perverted form of international corruption in my opinion). And thus, the most powerful country in the world is capable of the most evil. And don't be mistaken – Americans are not completely indifferent to the pain of the world. It is just that those in power tend to make sure first and foremost that the American people know as little as possible about the pain of the world (or at least the pain caused by American foreign policy). Do not underestimate the effectiveness of the PR industry and media conglomerates. Each powerful government goes through great troubles to hide its crimes from their own citizens, as they are usually the only ones that can stop them. Therefore, the US government doesn't bother to hide the truth from say:

Reply this comment

Person

Re: The Pentagon Papers

By Adabanasik, Ap2k at Jun 15, 2005 00:26 AM
My 2 cents re: imperialism: I am Polish (I grew up during the Soviet occupation – a.k.a. “communism”) but I currently live in the US – so I've had the opportunity to observe two of the largest and most powerful empires, as well as the movements that developed in opposition to imperialism and oppression. For the last few hundred years, Poland has fought (by violence and by peaceful means) various empires: Russia, Prussia, Habsburgs, Ottomans, Sweden, Soviets, Germans… – our borders have been revised more than I can count, we could fill the Baltic with the blood we lost fighting for independence and sovereignty– both from foreign oppressors and from our own despotic rulers. But we survived! Abyss…if your comments are honest then you got one thing right: you are angry and unhappy at the state of the world (as any decent person should be). But in my humble opinion you also got one thing wrong: instead of working on a solution, by finding common ground with people who share your pain, you concentrate on placing the blame on others. Such attitude will never produce positive results. It will lead to arguments and lack of unity, which not only stops real progress…it actually propels the progress of the so-called “evil doers”.

Reply this comment

Person

Re: The Pentagon Papers

By Morph_1005, Ohdear at May 31, 2005 14:17 PM
I'm convinced theabyss is a right winger trying to prevent sensible debate. Everyone, please just ignore him. He'll get bored and go away eventually. Every time you rise to the bait, he wins. I wouldn't necessarily apply that thinking to realpc and Yakov Bok though. Their contributions can actually be quite useful in generating debate and rehearsing responses to the most common criticisms of Chomsky's points of view. And most posters here deal very well with their attempts to misdirect the debate into marginal issues when the core contention is inarguable.

Reply this comment

Person

Re: The Pentagon Papers

By Johnston, Steve at May 25, 2005 18:06 PM
Hi Blackgadfly I'm sorry that so many progressive Americans like yourself have endured hostile words from others. You are absolutely right that Europeans and Americans together have caused our species so much pain, and continue to do so today. I feel that solidarity and quiet dialogue between progressive human beings on both sides of the atlantic is needed, if we are to feel our way towards an understanding. I wish you well. In solidarity Steve Johnston

Reply this comment

Person

Re: The Pentagon Papers

By Tyzasan, Blackgadfly at May 25, 2005 16:40 PM
(continued)...So, tell me, what are you doing in your country within your own territorial proximity to reduce the threat of multinational and transnational exploitation? The same forces that enslave you, and force you to live in a overt form of "wage-slavery" exist everywhere!! The hideous nature of liberal democracies began in Europe... Remember!! Or, do you need a history lesson? The spread of volture capitalism rooted out of the ambitious and malevolent interests of Europeans. So, guess what, nothing has changed in Europe either. Tell me, what do you plan to do with the insidious encroachment of the authoritarian position of the EU? What do you plan to do about the homogenization of Europe? Please do not ridicule Americans. Remember over half of this country is vehemently opposed to the "messianic" policies of our despotic government. However, structural change does not occur overnight. It must be culminated for some time to have any sustenance. Also, as powerful as the capitalist ruling classes are presently, it will take mass international organization to create the changes we would ALL like to see. Respectfully, blackgadfly

Reply this comment

Person

Re: The Pentagon Papers

By Tyzasan, Blackgadfly at May 25, 2005 16:14 PM
the abyss, Excuse me, but I am what you may consider to be an American, and not only are you lacking in valid premises to your slandering rants about Americans, but your conclusions are just as hideous. You have stated the following: "Instead of debating what Chomsky tells you to debate, why don't you start concentrating on America, and try to change that hideous country instead of sucking up to Americans, most of whom don't give a damn what their country does to others." Tell me! How often do you visit America? Furthermore, how well do you think you understand the dissenting social and political movements here? Obviously, you find solace in chastising MOST Americans, yet you fail to realize that the international community is just as responsible for thwarting militarism and aggression as Americans are. Moreover, you seem to be well versed in the English language, therefore I may surmise that you are British, or you are from some COLONIAL counterpart that pitted indigenous peoples against one another so you may live in a lavished environment full of illustrious extremeties...

Reply this comment

Person

By Johnston, Steve at May 25, 2005 15:36 PM
Hi abyss I feel your horror at the brutality of the US administration and it's support by a large section of the American population. I've experienced more than a little pain myself in the course of my life and I hope that what i write below helps you. I come from Scotland, we're kinda used to empire around these parts, fighting it for as long as we can remember. We've been defeated by empire over and over again but we're still here. Let me say this to you - human beings are universal, populations act according to a complex set of circumstances. American human beings are just the same as Scottish human beings. Anger is the mind killer, we need you on board. Steve Johnston

Reply this comment

Person

Re: The Pentagon Papers

By The-abyss, The-abyss at May 25, 2005 13:59 PM
This is why I say Americans are culpable in their government's crimes and in the deaths of millions. Americans are happy to murder others so long as their president tells them it's necessary, but refuse to subject themselves to similar treatment, rebelling when Bush's policies seem harmful to them. As for this nonsense that Americans were frightened senseless after 9/11, and so we must forgive them - fear gives you the right to butcher as many people as you want, does it? Judge: "Why did you kill a crowd of English football fans who were celebrating peacefully?" American: "On TV, I'd seen how violent the English fans can be; I was frightened they might attack me." Don't you just love the hypocrisy of Americans? And don't you just love the way Chomsky tries to excuse such criminal behavior - and to think he gets paid for doing so as well. I charge no fees, therefore I don't have to suck up to the American public.

Reply this comment

Person

Re: The Pentagon Papers

By The-abyss, The-abyss at May 25, 2005 13:35 PM
Graeme - like the true bully that he is - rudely intruded into one of my earlier posts, so I will now do the same to him. Do you have a mind of your own, Graeme, or does someone have to pull you along by your nose all your life? Instead of debating what Chomsky tells you to debate, why don't you start concentrating on America, and try to change that hideous country instead of sucking up to Americans, most of whom don't give a damn what their country does to others. The Iraq "war" was billed as a "shock and awe" event, with possibly millions of deaths. Americans believed Saddam had WMD and ties to Al Qaeda, and were prepared to nuke Iraq had he used them against U.S. soldiers. Americans proving - yet again! - that foreign lives are expendable. "We've come to liberate you. Sorry, we've changed our minds. Now we must nuke you." Isn't it interesting that when foreigners are about to be slaughtered no evidence is required by the American people - the word of their dear president is enough - yet when their leader talks about privatizing social security, suddenly their unwavering belief in the former drunk evaporates.

Reply this comment

Person

Re: The Pentagon Papers

By The-abyss, The-abyss at May 24, 2005 00:14 AM
My advice to American universities and their students: give your money to someone who really deserves it for what they have done - someone like Dahr Jamail, who risked his life in Iraq - as did his Iraqi interpreter - to bring us news the mainstream broadcasters refused to give us: http://www.dahrjamailiraq.com Alternatively, George Galloway (assuming he goes ahead with these speeches) should donate the money to independent American media organizations, such as Democracy Now: http://www.democracynow.org So that some long-lasting good comes from all this. Neither of these things will happen, of course.

Reply this comment

Person

Re: The Pentagon Papers

By The-abyss, The-abyss at May 23, 2005 23:30 PM
Suddenly, Galloway's reputation is on the line, and it all comes flooding out. Now, some people may think Galloway is a most principled man, but I'm yet to be convinced it wasn't a self-serving performance. I've no axe to grind against Galloway. I generally supported what he said. I went on the same marches he went on recently. I merely refuse to have the wool pulled over my eyes. Galloway's reputation-saving speech is now to be boxed and marketed in the U.S., as only Americans know how. It looks like Galloway may soon be touring American universities giving speeches - like Noam Chomsky! - and be paid handsomely for his time ($5,000 or more per lecture; I think Chomsky gets more). Galloway is already very, very wealthy. He doesn't need more money. Read the article about George Galloway, the political star who likes fistfuls of dollars, here: http://thescotsman.scotsman.com/international.cfm?id=561552005 More detailed article here: http://news.scotsman.com/topics.cfm?tid=818&id=560212005 (Flamers who respond to this post will be ignored. No one pays me a penny to say what I say. Therefore, I don't have to justify myself to anyone)

Reply this comment

Person

Re: The Pentagon Papers

By The-abyss, The-abyss at May 23, 2005 22:59 PM
I made a post defending George Galloway's right to give U.S. senators an earful. If America can torch international law, toss the Geneva Conventions in the river, and make its citizens immune to prosecution by the International Criminal Court (ICC), then it's only fair that, faced with a rogue superpower, other countries should also stop cooperating - at least until America starts to fulfill its international obligations. Bush and company can start by bringing democracy to Iraq - democracy which is currently being trampled all over by the U.S. occupation and its puppet government. Now to what I wanted to say. Although I defended Galloway, I said he's done nothing to convince me that he's any different from all the other self-serving politicians. He was, after all, a Labour MP - until Blair booted him out - benefiting from all the perks that job brings. I recently saw his performance on a British TV program discussing Iraq. When confronted with lies and half-truths about the invasion, he seemed flippant with his answers, and lacking in seriousness. "Why aren't you saying this, Galloway?" I thought. "And this! And this!" Chomsky wouldn't have wasted this opportunity.

Reply this comment

Person

Re: The Pentagon Papers

By Tyzasan, Blackgadfly at May 21, 2005 03:41 AM
The greatest fear to the global capitalist machine was the fear of "independent nationalism" that was gaining ground in both South and North Vietnam. Before we aspire to acclaim some sort of political ideology to the movements of oppressed peoples, we should take in consideration the relationship between the dominant economic and political forces within southeast Asia as well as the international political economy. The peasant movements of Vietnam were for the most part social, not political, in substance. Ethnonationalism is one of the greatest fears to the hegemonic powers of the international community. Remember, those who own and maintain the means of production govern state intervention. So, before we accredit the North as "communist", and the South as "liberal capitalists", we must remember that all throughout history tyrannical despots have always pitted people against one another in order to shape regional economies in their interest. The atrocities in Vietnam are no different. ;-)

Reply this comment

Person

Re: The Pentagon Papers

By Johnston, Steve at May 21, 2005 02:07 AM
I know this is off topic but I don't care. I won't go into all the details but I have been working on a few ideas on how self organising economic communities and managed economic communities might coexist within the confines of the state when Chomsky showed me my mistake. I have a Western European conception of the state as does just about every intellectual left or right I have ever read from the Anglo American bubble (Including smaller offshoots like Australia) when Chomsky published this article. http://www.zmag.org/content/showarticle.cfm?SectionID=10&ItemID=7885 Note his description of the Ottoman empire, especially the role of the state in relation to the population. I can't help but think there is something profound here. You read it here first.

Reply this comment

Person

Re: The Pentagon Papers

By Jemstein, Greenjazz at May 20, 2005 04:44 AM
Remember the premise of Robert Aldrich's film Twilight's Last Gleaming? It was that the whole Vietnam business was an attempt by the US to persuade the Russians that they were capable of anything, no matter how barbaric. Essentially, the purpose of the war was to frighten the Russians. The fact that Russia was friendly towards North Vietnam, and that the Vietnamese regarded the Chinese with loathing, only encouraged this policy. Anyway, if that was the intention, it seems to have worked. It didn't take long for the Russians to give up. One thing you can say about the Vietnam War - it wasn't responsible for 9/11. We didn't see that one coming. The Empire under attack! As Toynbee pointed out many years ago, the analogies between the USA and Ancient Rome are compelling.

Reply this comment

Person

Re: The Pentagon Papers

By Jautter, Mind at May 19, 2005 03:04 AM
The North Vietnamese were communists just like George Wallace was a segragationist.George wasn't anti-integration until he realized he could garner more votes by adhering to the segrationist's cause.The Vietnamese were communists so they could get military assistance from Russia and China to get the French and then US the hell out of their country.In the "documentary" The Fog Of War,Robert McNamara said the Vietnamese,at the peace talks in Paris,told him if the US had just read about their history,they would have realized all the Viets ever wanted was to determine their own destity, and any "Domino Effect" of communist expansion was merely fog.The commie threat is gone,but thank God,Allah, or Whoever we now have terrorists to justify the military machine that is so proudly supported by people sporting those obnoxious magnetic ribbons on their SUV's

Reply this comment

Person

Re: The Pentagon Papers

By Chadrock314, Chadrock at May 19, 2005 02:28 AM
You're quoting Chomsky out of context. The "South was almost completely defenseless" to U.S. power. The U.S is the main imperialist actor in the war because it feared the threat of a good example. To quote Chomsky from another blog entry: http://blog.zmag.org/index.php/weblog/entry/the_vietnam_virus/ "The issue that concerned planners from the 1950s was the usual one: independent nationalism in Vietnam might prove successful in terms meaningful to others in the region facing similar problems, and the “virus” might spread, “infecting” others, in Thailand, Malaya, sooner or later Indonesia, which was regarded as the second-most important domino. " [...] "That intolerable consequence was prevented, very efficiently, by the rational means of destroying the virus of potential successful economic development in Vietnam, and “inoculating” the region, often by the support of brutal and vicious military dictatorships, including Indonesia, after the failure of Eisenhower's efforts to break off the outer islands (where most of the wealth is) in 1958. That's a very considerable victory, and the US corporate system has gained enormously from it—which, incidentally, includes China."

Reply this comment

Person

Re: The Pentagon Papers

By Allen, Robert at May 19, 2005 02:23 AM
"Besides, what in world could the U.S. wanted that Vietnam had that would lead to U.S. imperialism?" Aw c'mon. Haven't you ever heard of the (Fats) Domino Theory?

Reply this comment

Person

Re: The Pentagon Papers

By Bok, Yakov at May 18, 2005 22:23 PM
"the South was almost completely defenseless" That very telling quote is almost lost in the "U.S. as imperialist" hallucination. You cannot forget that the North was a communist authoritarian state seeking to impose its will on the South. Not to be an apologist for the South Vietnamese government, but at the begining of the War, "the South was almost completely defenseless" and stopping the violent spread of communism had its merits. Thus, it was North Vietnam that was acting as the imperialist. Besides, what in world could the U.S. wanted that Vietnam had that would lead to U.S. imperialism?

Reply this comment

Person

Re: The Pentagon Papers

By K, Mr at May 18, 2005 22:17 PM
war on the cheap and leave the region a wasteland that's the neo-con way. 40 years and still going strong. This is the new world order: corporate warfare in the name of democracy. Quick support your local tyranny and jump on the neo-con bandwagon. Get your commodity quick for each dollar finances a secret war in some godforsaken region of the planet which does not bow to the new neo-con order. Like i said before war on the cheap makes good business sense. It's costing the neo-con masters way too much for that oil in iraq. when's that depleted uranium gonna kick in and wipe out that pesty civilian resistance problem? God save us all from the tyranny of corporate democracy. Price check on iraq cause there's gotta be a cheaper way to get oil than this. Wallmart should have invaded Iraq. Disney should have invaded Iraq. Both successfull corporations who know how to reap profit from any region. The pentagon don't exploit enough they should have taken lessons from these two mega corporations.

Reply this comment

Comment On This Blog Post  See All Comments (21)

Loading_border