The Wrong Torture Question
After Downing Street
When Americans get "ethical" these days they ponder the great moral mysteries, like "Is public health coverage fair to insurance companies?" or "If we increase the military budget but reduce one section of it, can the whole world still be safe?" or "Would you still oppose torture if it worked?"
Let me suggest a few reasons why I think that last question is the wrong one.
First, torture DID work. It forced false agreement with war lies, helping to launch a long-desired illegal war. And it persuaded many Americans that some very scary and very foreign people were out to get them, people so scary that they had to be tortured in order to talk with them, people whose every false utterance, aimed at stopping the pain, instead generated color-coded horror warnings.
Second, torture has boosted recruitment for anti-U.S. organizations tremendously, horribly damaged the United States' image, stripped U.S. diplomats of the power to address human rights abuses abroad, as well as stripping U.S. citizens of a clear moral right to protest being tortured, and set an example that has spread far and wide. Torture has brutalized participants and witnesses, and we are all witnesses, and it has destroyed lives both through torture to the point of death and through torture to the point of unbearable life.
Third, if you're going to violate particular laws and treaties, you can either repeal them and leave all the other ones intact, or you can simply proceed criminally, thereby assaulting the whole structure of law, leaving everyone in doubt whether ANY laws will be enforced against important people. Our government has taken the latter approach and redefined crimes as "policy differences," which is why torture is ongoing and no criminal penalty will deter its future expansion or the commission of other crimes of whatever sort by high officials.
Fourth, if torture had produced life-saving information, we would have long since heard that fact shouted from every television studio. In fact, we did hear such claims made. They just all turned out to be fictional. In the latest claim of this sort, torture supposedly produced information on the planned bombing of a building in Los Angeles, and this information was transported back in time to the moment at which investigators had already discovered that proposal and laughed heartily at the then-debunked claim that a serious plot had ever developed. The fact that Dick Cheney is pushing this nonsense on us is not actually a compelling reason to believe it unquestioningly.
Fifth, if torture ever produced life-saving information it would be through sheer luck and not intention. Nobody tortures with that intention, because expert interrogators believe other methods are more effective than torture. And if that lucky day ever came, there would be no basis on which to surmise that other methods would not have been at least as effective as the torture was. So, even if a real ticking time bomb situation could be created, there would be no reason to believe torture to be the best tool. And if you could magically design a situation in which, by definition, torture was the ethical choice, you still would not have created a situation in which ignoring the crime of torture would do less damage than pardoning the torturers.
So, do ends justify means? Is torture just plain wrong even in those cases when it would save more lives than it cost? These are intensely ignorant questions. Ends must always be made to justify any means, but the ends must be understood in their entirety. If one result of an action is damage to the rule of law or exacerbation of international hatred or promotion of senseless fear, that must be part of the calculation. Of course torture would not be wrong in a situation in which, all things considered, it did more good than harm; but that situation cannot be found. Whether you claim to simply adhere to a blanket rule, or you consider all the consequences of your actions, you arrive at the same conclusion: torture must be abolished.
But so must the debate over whether torture must be abolished. Torture is illegal. Our laws must be enforced. Torture's recent prominent use by the United States came about in an attempt to promote a far worse crime than torture, the crime of aggressive war. We should not be asking ourselves whether torture was an acceptable means toward that end. We should be asking ourselves how we can best rid the world of wars of aggression.
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David Swanson is the author of the upcoming book "Daybreak: Undoing the Imperial Presidency and Forming a More Perfect Union" by Seven Stories Press and of the introduction to "The 35 Articles of Impeachment and the Case for Prosecuting George W. Bush" published by Feral House and available at Amazon.com. Swanson holds a master's degree in philosophy from the University of Virginia. He has worked as a newspaper reporter and as a communications director, with jobs including press secretary for Dennis Kucinich's 2004 presidential campaign, media coordinator for the International Labor Communications Association, and three years as communications coordinator for ACORN, the Association of Community Organizations for Reform Now. Swanson is Co-Founder of AfterDowningStreet.org, creator of ProsecuteBushCheney.org and Washington Director of Democrats.com, a board member of Progressive Democrats of America, the Backbone Campaign, and Voters for Peace, a convenor of the legislative working group of United for Peace and Justice, and chair of the accountability and prosecution working group of United for Peace and Justice.




By Small, Brian at May 01, 2009 06:16 AM
Here's some background in Torture being ineffective in addition to immoral from DemocracyNow! It would have been nice to see some of this during Jon Stewart's argument with the slick torture guy Cliff May on the daily show. "Foundation for Defense of Democracies" what does that have to do with excusing torture? Znetter Marjorie Cohn's blog on Condoleeza Rice, Nixon, and John Yoo is probably relevant too.
From DemocracyNow!
Some of the torture tactics on 24 include drugging, water-boarding, electrocution or power-drilling into a man's shoulder. In five seasons of the show, there have been no less than sixty-seven torture scenes according to the Parents Television Council-that's more than one every show.
This past fall, the Dean of West Point, Brigadier General Patrick Finnegan, along with experienced military and FBI interrogators and representatives of Human Rights First, flew to Southern California to meet with the creative team behind 24 and tell them to stop using torture because American soldiers were copying the show's tactics. The meeting was first revealed this month by The New Yorker Magazine.
Well the Philadelphia Inquirer reports the show has decided to cut back on torture. Not because of complaints but, they say, because it has become something of a cliche. Tony Lagouranis is one of the former Army interrogator who met the show's writers in November. He served for a year in Iraq. He joins us from a studio in Chicago. And in our firehouse studio we are joined by David Danzig, director of the Prime Time Torture Project for Human Rights First. He was also in the group that met with the producers of 24. We asked Joel Surnow-the creator of 24 or any representative from the show to be on the program but they denied our request.
....
DAVID DANZIG: Well, we brought Tony and two other very experienced interrogators, as well as Brigadier General Patrick Finnegan, who is the Dean of West Point, to talk to the executive producer of 24 and several of their lead writers. And really our point in bringing them there was to talk to them about the way in which they showed torture. Our view is that it's really quite boring, what you see on 24. Torture happens, as you say, almost every episode, and Jack Bauer steps up, and bam, bam, bing, uses torture and gets the effects. It almost always works. What we were saying to them is, in the real world, it's not like that. And the trouble is that what you're suggesting with your show is that it could be or should be. And so, our point was to try and provide them some real world basis for showing torture. We were suggesting to them, hey, what if you made it more like real life, if torture took place and bad things happened as result? What if, for example, the person who was tortured gave out false information, or the person who was being tortured was killed? That would lead to a whole area that would be much more interesting, we said, and much more realistic and wouldn't have this negative consequence.
JUAN GONZALEZ: And what was the response you got?
DAVID DANZIG: Well, to the credit of the producers and the writers, they were interested in this conversation, and they were really pushing the interrogators. I mean, we were sort of surprised to learn they're in their sixth season and they didn't spend a lot of time talking to soldiers and interrogators about the way that they do these things. So, for them, this was a really interesting research opportunity. But it's also very difficult for them, because they have a hugely popular show, and we were suggesting to them that they do something actually a little bit risky, which is change their format. And there's obviously a lot of money at stake.
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