UFPJ and Going Forward
By Michael Albert at Dec 23, 2008 |
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The United for Peace and Justice Organization/Coalition, born in 2001, held its fourth national assembly in mid December. I wasn't there so I am commenting, hesitantly, based only on seeing a few accounts, and examining documents on the UFPJ website http://www.unitedforpeace.org/index.php
UFPJ is not a membership organization with a shared ideology and singular program. It is not an explicit conduit for and creator of revolutionary inclinations and insights. To judge it by standards that would apply to such an undertaking would be silly. Those of us who would like to see such an inspiring and growing organization have a responsibility to make it happen, not to carp at another undertaking for not being what it has no intention of being.
UFPJ is a massive coalition including over 1400 member groups, born to oppose the war in Iraq and war more generally, aimed at progressive and radical policy victories, whose agenda, rarely extending beyond a few months into the future, must be shared and agreed to by a wide array of participants from many backgrounds who often hold conflicting analyses and priorities.
The newly-minted mission statement of this massive coalition indicates that it is unified in its "commitment to overwhelm war with peace and oppression with justice" and to serve as "a national, movement-building coalition." The statement singles out for opposition "U.S. policy in Iraq," "U.S. military presence to every corner of the earth," and "neo-liberal free trade policies that concentrate power and wealth in the hands of a few." It advocates that "sovereign nations, including indigenous people, have the right to determine their own future, free from the threat of preemptive attacks and regime change, military occupation, and outside control of their economic and natural resources." It reiterates that "without peace there will be no justice, and the denial of justice undermines peace." It challenges "the idea of good wars and so called humanitarian interventions."
UFPJ presents its current priorities in its newly posted, newly agreed, national assembly documents. It seeks "cuts in military spending, comprehensive care of our veterans, and commitments to health care and education for all... while rebuilding the Gulf Coast and the entire national infrastructure." It is "committed to defending and extending democratic freedoms to everyone" including "vigorously combating all discrimination based on race, nationality, religion, gender, immigration statues, sexual orientation, age or physical ability."
UFPJ advocates expanding the "fight against global warming" including "breaking dependence on fossil fuels, shelving plans for offshore oil drilling and new nuclear power plants and instead investing in the development of safe, renewable sources of energy and a green job economy."
UFPJ seeks "the worldwide elimination of all weapons of mass destruction, including the U.S. massive stockpile of nuclear weapons" and is "committed to ending the illegal and immoral `pre-emptive' wars and on-going occupations of Iraq and Afghanistan," also opposing "war or other aggressive acts ... against the people of Pakistan, Iran, Syria, Cuba, Venezuela, North Korea, Colombia and other nations."
UFPJ wants to end torture, enforce international laws, defend "human and labor rights," "protect dissent," and "end U.S. political, economic, and military aid fueling Israel's rise as an unchallengeable regional military power." It opposes "Israel's illegal occupation of the Palestinian West Bank, Gaza, and East Jerusalem and its denial of equal rights to Palestinians."
Indeed, UFPJ opposes "increasing U.S. military involvement anywhere in the world, reflected in the expansion of a massive network of military bases stretching to every corner of the planet and the precipitous increase in U.S. weapons sales (large and small)" including wanting to call government officials to account for their crimes.
The newly minted mission statement also clarifies some of UFPJ's internal priorities.
Thus, UFPJ "coordinates and supports the work of existing peace and justice groups and builds linkages, solidarity and unity where none or little exists." It links "foreign policy concerns to realities here at home, and U.S. militarism to the corporate economic interests it serves."
Further, "UFPJ struggles against racism, white supremacy and all forms of oppression" and is "pro-active in addressing
power dynamics within our movement, especially regarding issues of race, class, gender, religion, sexual orientation or gender identity, nationality, disability, cultural heritage, or ethnicity."
Finally, UFPJ seeks "international alliances," favors "nonviolent means," and "strives to embody in our day-to-day work the values
we espouse and the world we seek to build: a world rooted in respect and dignity for all life, where cooperation, generosity, honesty, true democracy and sustainable practices are the foundations of our culture."
That's the up side of UFPJ. It speaks for itself. The positive bottom line, if we look at UFPJ's self description as of 2009, is that UFPJ is a massive compendium of progressive organizations, projects, and movements, about seven years young, with wonderful aspirations and energy.
What makes me worry about UFPJ, however, are two broad possibilities.
In general, if a political organization is not growing - then most typically it is declining. Plateaus don't last long and don't win much. If from year to year, UFPJ is not becoming ever more insightfu, coherent, ambitious, and exciting, it is likely becoming more confuse, disparate, tentative, and even passive. My first worry, then, is that as years go by there is not enough progress in UFPJ principles and analyses, and not enough growth in its coherence and breadth to sustain aggressive allegiance. Typically, insufficient innovation generates insufficient inspiration generates dissolution of commitment for political organizations. Is this the case for UFPJ too?
When I look at UFPJ historically, comparing now to earlier, I fear there is not enough growth and development to keep UFPJ's sinews strengthening. Declining numbers of events, numbers of participants, and levels of militance, are very troubling, particularly when one realizes that the country as a whole - in part due to UFPJ - is far more antiwar and far more receptive to a progressive agenda than in past years. A set of demands and views, and underlying analyses and aims that is also not growing too much, is equally worrisome. As to why a fall off in program or a lack of growth in insight, I worry that perhaps UFPJ has been so concerned to maintain its existing organizational membership list, however formal many of those members are, that it hasn't sufficiently challenged its actual individual members to grow in numbers and especially in commitment and to do more together, even at risk of losing some organizational support. I worry, in other words, that UFPJ hasn't provided its members sufficient excitement and sense of achievement and called upon them for sufficient creativity to engender growing involvement.
All too often, left groups, and probably all kinds of groups, look at themselves in the immediate moment, without comparing the present to the past. We look at the current condition, and say, hey, that's pretty good - not even noticing that the trajectory isn't so good. If fewer events, smaller events, less audacity of events, less inspiration in the ranks, marks the UFPJ trend from past years to this year, even alongside a steadily more receptive broad population, then it would imply a priority need to fix the internal problem undermining advance, not to celebrate current virtues.
Maybe UFPJ should seek more of a shared foundation of values and aims among its members, or perhaps it should promote more interactivity among constituencies and especially more mutual support for their separate agendas, or perhaps it should work toward sharing more inspiring and even audacious mid term and longer term goals. Maybe, after seven years, it should aspire to be more like a (miniature) good society than a (massive) coalition of barely connected components, more of a community of mutually respectful citizens with a greatest common sum agenda rather than a patchwork of constituencies with a least common denominator approach.
In any event, getting a yearly document that people can agree on is very good and very important, of course. But getting such a document, by whatever means, to continually reflect and communicate a growing level of coherence, commitment, insight, vision, and understanding, would be better still. And getting members to take such steadily evolving "paper" comitments seriously and to act on them in growing numbers, with growing passion, and in unity with one another, well, that's the real task, of course. Is that happening, as the years go by? I don't know, but I admit I don't think so - from out here beyond the inner walls of the coalition, it doesn't seem like it - and, in any case, whether it is happening or not is what I would like to know - a report on that is the kind of report I would like to read - and the kind of report I would hope members would want to see too, in order to plan how to proceed.
My second UFPJ concern is more specific to our current times and, again, by no means confined to only them. Of course many progressives hope, even against all odds, that Obama will seek to win just changes rather than only to resurrect a rickety empire. There is nothing immoral about what we might call "Obama hope" - even if that hope turns out, as i expect it will, to have been unwarranted. The problem arises when "Obama hope" leads to "Obama obedience" and especially to "Obama recalcitrance."
How is it that we so often lose track, in our desire for good news, of the obvious? If Obama is a real tribune of the people, or even if he is just a quarterback for just causes (as some speakers at the UFPJ conference very peculiarly labelled him), then the implication for UFPJ is no different than if Obama is Clinton 2, or even Bush 3, which is to say overwhelmingly a conduit for elite gains. Whatever Obama's personal predisposition may be, change will be won, if at all, by powerful social movements demanding extensive improvements and raising costs for elites until they implement those improvements. Even if (against all evidence and reason) Obama were to turn out to be more radical than Chavez and equally aggressive about change, or, if you prefer, if he turned out to be more radical than UFPJ and more aggressive about change, still, popular militant movements would be essential to any progressive success. Given that obvious truth, it follows that curtailing innovation and activism to not irritate Obama, or to not appear to be opposing him, would be suicide. In fact, ironically, one could even make a good case that those who claim to expect a big "Obama benefit" for justice ought to be clamoring most loudly for an even more aggressive, more radically insightful UFPJ than those who think Obama will be a typical elite-serving president, since if Obama were to turn out profoundly progressive, UFPJ becoming even more militant and far reaching in its aims would be both needed and possible.
In other words, unless I am missing something central here, I can see only one reason why even a belief in very large scale "Obama benefit," should cause someone to think the appropriate course of action for UFPJ would be to back off on issues and on militance rather than pursue its own stance right into militant opposition - and that would be literally currying "Obama favor," literally worrying more about getting an "Obama smile," or even an "Obama position," than about seeking change itself.
Whether Obama is same old same old, or is just a little better then what has preceeded, or is a really big opening for justice - just doesn't matter vis a vis the need for UFPJ to become stronger, more militant, broader, and deeper. It ought to be obvious, but I worry that it isn't, in the hurly burly of daily operations, that the breadth, depth, and militance of UFPJ is its lifeblood, if its purpose is to win change.
Finely, regarding my own view, I wrote back in November when Obama won indicating what it might look like if Obama were really an ally of progressive change, and so far there is at most a minuscule sign or two pointing that way - among an avalanche of horrible appointments and utterances pointing the other way. Couple the current overwhelming evidence of overwhelmingly business as usual with decades upon decades of historical precedent for overwhelmingly business as usual, and while I have nothing against someone still hoping for "Obama benefit" - hell, I do too, why not? - I must admit I am wondering how anyone remotely informed can stand up, at this point, and talk as if Obama being a seriously positive force for real change beyond what system maintenance demands is a virtually sure thing.
In other words, if someone wants to hope that Obama is going to be a quarterback for progressive change, okay. If someone wants to hope even more, that like Chavez in Venezuela, Obama will try to act on his desires to help society's worst off, as a result encountering immense elite resistance, and then, most crucially, not give in to it, but instead become revolutionary, okay. I hope all these things too. But to say that any of that is likely, much less to currently believe it is inevitable based on what we have seen so far, well, that doesn't bode well for our objectivity, and perhaps even our motives, I fear.
I guess is the point of this last concern of mine is that self delusion does not build movements.






A Shared Problem
By Davidson, Carl at Dec 30, 2008 17:34 PM
UFPJ's problem is not its alone, but one that's shared widely in the peace and justice movement, especially those focused on ending the current wars and preventing wider ones.
It's how to find the forms of struggle, the projects and tactics, that the vast majority of people who are critical of this war, who likely voted for Obama, but have yet to take action, and then plant and nourish these forms of struggle in such a way that these people on the cusp of doing something, see these forms and tactics AS THEIR OWN and become engaged in doing what needs to be done.
ANSWER, TONC, WCW, the Cleveland bunch, USLAW, all of them and more, face the same problem.
In the course of the past year, we have all see tremendous mass participation in one form of struggle, an election campaign. We have seen that very large numbers of these people are workers, minority community residents and inspired young people of all nationalities--that taken together, they are the engine of change. Those of us who worked with them also know they hate these wars, even if they never came to a single demo, and most of them, by far, have not.
ANSWER and its allies have one approach: more of the same. Pick a date, monopolize the permits in DC, elaborate a set of politically correct demands around every struggle going on everywhere, round up every group in agreement with them and try to start a few new ones, round up politically correct speakers around every demand, publish long lists of endorsers, hold some meetings and sell lot of bus tickets.
This will pull out tens of thousands of people--maybe more than before, but if some trends continue, maybe less. In either case, it's not likely to break through where the breaking through needs to be done, among the people mentioned above.
I think most people know this, and are troubled and frustrated.
Some will try a repeat of the RNC events last summer as a cure. They'll attack both UFPJ and ANSWER as reformist authoritarian sellouts. They think to really make a difference everyone should dress in black, with ski masks, Kaiffiyas and black and red flags, and run around DC in small groups, disrupting traffic, breaking store windows and burning trash cans. This is real resistance, as opposed to UFPJ 'herdathons' and 'cattle drives' (their terms, not mine)
I think this is wacko and a waste. Been there and saw that in the 'Days of Rage' in Chicago decades ago. It was wacko then, and hasn't improved one bit. It's worse than a waste, because it not only doesn't solve the problem we all share, it makes it more difficult to do so.
To its credit, the two-thirds majority at the UFPJ Assembly this month voted to try something different. To be frank, there's not a complete set of ideas. No one has a magic wand. But they are trying to break out of the impasse we all share. They think connecting with the African American community, on its terms, is part of it. They think connecting the war and the economy on terms labor union locals see as their own, is also part of it. They think connecting to the 4000 house meetings last month inspired by the Obama campaign is part of it, too.
We're not completely sure what will happen yet. We set a time to begin, MLK's birthday, a time to benchmark locally, the aniversary of the Iraq invasion, and a time to focus masses in the streets, Wall St in NYC on the anniversary of King's assassination. Even that may change substantially, we'll see. The main idea is for new forces to take the lead. As I said, we'll trying something different. We have to. We can't stop the wars just by repeating the old formulas.
UFPJ's critics take this as sucking up to the Democratic elites, as pussyifooting or honeymooning around Obama's sensibilities.
They couldn't be more wrong.
Obama is what he is. Our task is organizing and mobilizing the new alliences and forces into popular power from below to compel him to do what needs to be done. So study the assembly documents, put your thinking caps on, get outside your comfort zones, and lend a hand. It's a shared problem, and the solution isn't clear yet.
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Re: A Shared Problem
By Albert, Michael at Dec 31, 2008 10:33 AM
Hi Carl,
Whether we differ or not is unclear. It seems to me there are two tasks, not solely the one you highlight - and I think you may agree. And it seems to me they should each be done in ways that can move forward - of course - but so that neither subverts the other. And again, I think you may agree.
So, one task, which you highlight, is for activists to constructively engage with a massive number of citizens who are antiwar, economy angry, health starved, etc. etc. This involves respecting where people are at, talking with them and interacting with them, not yelling at them or disparaging everything they do and say - including working in ways that incorporate these daily life folks as well as we activists in joint projects and dissent, etc. As you indicate, while large displays of dissent and raising the social cost is key to finally winning gains, base building and effective communication and building of ties is key to the dissent growing.
The second task starts instead from what is ultimately needed in the longer run - as compared to the first task starting from where we are presently located and seeking short term gains right now. This second task is to build radical aspirations for a new society, and associated awareness and organizational means that can lead - however far off - into attaining that new society.
Each task has its own intrinsic merit, but also very real dangers. The former, ideally, contributes to and in time merges into the latter. The latter, ideally, informs and respects and in time connects and extends with the former. Taken together, the two become one and the merit of the orientations as carried out now are enhanced and the dangers diminished.
For example, reaching out to and engaging with large sectors who are critical of current conditions to win immediate changes is obviously good in bettering lives and enhancing ties now. It does run the risk, however, and I think perhaps you underestimate this a bit, Carl, which, if so, would regrettably increase this danger and not diminish it, of getting so sucked into existing attitudes by wanting to relate positively to people holding them, as to dilute even short term aims and energies, much less longer term prospects, to the point of going barely anywhere at all. In other words, as I am sure you know, trying to relate to the mainstream can and often does engender a blindness to or a denial of discordant facts such as not yet widely accepted truths (for example, about Obama, say) which, in avoiding them, tend to hold back potentials.
Now it is also true, as you point out on the other side, that seeking to understand what is needed in the longer term and to begin conceiving and embodying it in our efforts now by orienting our efforts in part in terms of ultimate goals, has the virtue, of course, not only of being out front and truthful about who we are and what we really want, assuming we know, but also of actually leading toward it. On the other hand, this vision oriented approach can sometimes occur without serious vision -which becomes mere holier than though rhetorical posturing - and even with serious vision, it can divorce us from current realities, causing us to become ingroupish, to talk and dress and act in incomprehensible and even more or less fadish or crazy ways, etc. - and more - as you rightly note, Carl.
So, for me at least, people doing task one should do it not only to reach out and try to win gains now, but also very conscious about the possible danger of becoming part of the current mainstream, social democrat or even just plain liberal, rather than pulling the mainstream leftward into a more serious and radical mindset, and about calmly trying to avoid cooptive dangers. And people doing task two should be equally aware that they have to not only do their future oriented task, but also guard against its downside of divorce from reality, posturing, etc. But more than attentiveness, what can really help each part of the project excel, is respect for and engagement with those more focused on the other part. If those acting in the present, primarily, so to speak, can keep in mind and pay serious attention to those worried more about the future - and vice versa, if those acting toward the future can pay serious attention to those relating daily, now, each can avoid the ills that threaten their success - or so it seems to me.
What does this mean, broadly?
The folks who think they are seeking a new world without compromise and with real vigor, etc., (a) have to actually be seriously trying to do that - which means not posturing, and otherwise avoiding real issues, but doing the hard work that is associated with having and effectively communicating inspiring and substantial vision and incorporating its implications into their organizational work and outreach. And (b) they have to do it while respecting and hearing and trying to learn from and as much as possible to work with and give time to those who are more focussed on immediate events and possibilities and the associated constituencies. And likewise for the reverse. Those who are trying to hook up with large current constituencies and to push for and win gains all right now, need to do the hard work associated with their immediate outreach and activist aims, of course, not just prattle about being relevant while watering down their words and actions to the point of being innocuous or engaging in tired tactics that go nowhere, but have to also think hard on the lessons that emerge from serious longer term commitments and especially trying to incorporate them as well as instruct them, etc.
What we have now, more or less, instead, is all too often that the people in each group avoid each other, often derisively, and can only see the aspect of the other that is potentially harmful, and rather than trying to respectfully help turn the situation around.
In commenting on UFPJ, I guess I was trying to gently suggest that I think their work would gain if they tried to bridge these gaps a bit more, not merely trying to amass and retain allies now, but also trying to reach out creatively - your point - and simultaneously move their comprehension forward, move their demands forward, etc., all while also, as you rightly desire, Carl, developing new ways of engaging that reach out to the really important, and I agree with you potentially ready, much larger audiences.
My point is, I guess, not only do I not think that fulfilling your outreach and mobilizing agenda is contrary to developing and utilizing insightful and sober longer term visions including to embody the seeds of the long term goals now, I think it would be greatly informed by that, enriched by that, inspired by that - and vice versa. Again, I suspect and hope we agree.
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Re: A Shared Problem
By Davidson, Carl at Dec 31, 2008 19:05 PM
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minimum program
By minot, Minot at Jan 30, 2009 12:22 PM
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Re: Re: A Shared Problem
By Albert, Michael at Jan 02, 2009 13:08 PM
> One way to think strategically here is to posit a place you'd like to be, or think is required, then map your way backwards from there to here, to get a working hypothesis for the path. I think that is exactly how to pursue strategic matters - as well as working forward from here to there, so to speak.
When I do it, I think about parecon and parsoc in the distance, and then mostly ask myself, okay what kinds of allegiance from what constituencies, manifested in movements with what properties, will be needed to be in an interim position, but well poised to move on to the goal. This leads me to various veiws about multi issue multi tactic movement organizing, raising consciousness, building organization that reveals and implements elements of our aims, etc. etc.
> To deal with the economic crisis and end these wars, I would posit that the working class, led mainly by its own organizations, in alliance with the minority communities, led by their organizations, need to organize broad networks and alliances, and mobilize popular power to focus on the White House and Congress, in the streets of DC and everywhere else.
Sure, but this much isn't really in dispute anywhere on the left, is it? I hope not. Disputes probably involve two other matters (1) how do you work toward attaining movements with sufficient power to accomplish what you indicate - and (2) how do you do it in a way which will then lead further in directions you like rather than dissolve or go in bad directions. Put differently, the current crisis will end - and so will the wars - so, one might say, if that was one's only aim, and one didn't care when - there is no need to do anything. If one wanted those ends, but as quickly as possible - of course different choices arise. If one wants those ends, very quickly, but so as to also be able to then win more - perhaps still different choices arise.
> The current economic crisis and the harsh realities it is imposing is setting the stage for something like that to happen. It may start just around jobs, or EFCA, or healthcare. It may start around the collapse of the city of Detroit and that whole section of Michigan. However it starts, it won't be limited by its beginning. I think it has already started - now will it escalate or not - and become sustained, or not - and in what form?
> But the prospect is on the table now in a way that it wasn't only a year ago. I want to help something like that happen, but it will take something other than the usual suspects to start it.
Again, I would say it is started - without the left, for the most part - but where it goes isn't clear at all...
> And when it does, I'd be quite happy to see the peace movement as a large but still secondary ally in that mobilization, the ally that puts out and unites all around the demands that they can't win anything unless they end these wars and cut defense. Once those forces are in motion, I'd love to have the problem of co-optation on my plate.
Of course if no one is trying to coopt you, you are unlikely to be accomplishing much - agreed. But, it does make sense to know what is coming, and to build in ways that are prepared... I am not sure what if anything we are disagreeing about...
> I'd have a way to deal with it, I think, but right now the problem I have is not co-optation, but marginalization. This idea that you find A Problem and address it, is, I think, not so good. I think it goes back to maoism/leninism, etc. The problem is, there are always many important issues, and solving x now is only valuable if it doesn't lead to collapse later. In a real sense, as I think you probably agree, this was our youthful problem. We wanted to end the Vietnam War, raising costs and inspiring others to do so, in the street, now (that is, then) but we often didn't even think about, much less act in ways accounting for, not only the moment - but a longer term outcome. We didn't build a movement that could last constantly getting deeper and broader... Now the impetus to reach out is most certainly good - but doing it in ways that make it likely that once you are in touch with a lot of people, a mass audience, say, what you have to say, what you do, will be innocuous - well, I am sure you will agree, that isn't worth much. So both those oriented to reaching out today, and those oriented to attaining liberation in the future need to incorporate the lessons of the other...
> I also think there's an approach to the future 'good society' in this setting, but it's not what some of our anarchists streetfighters have in mind--although who knows? I could be wrong. For instance, at Republic Windows, I was an advocate of going beyond winning what was due the workers by way of severance. Why not keep the factory open, let them government buy it out or take it by eminent domain, have the workers take charge, in whole or even part?
And of course, this is precisely what I would have pushed for too... and then, having taken over the plant, reorganizing it, etc. Sure. This is vastly more meaningful than most steps on the left...
> Give the new firm a huge purchase order for green windows for the housing in low-income neighborhoods; tie it to green jobs winterizing homes for unemployed youth. In short, what you and I know as the 'high road' structural reforms connected to the solidarity economy, changes we can fight for now that point to the future. So if you're one to think this is a good way to proceed, that structural reforms like this can be advanced within a much wider arena of class struggle, including the struggle for peace and justice, then, yes, we can find considerable agreement.
But of course...
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Re: Re: Re: A Shared Problem
By Davidson, Carl at Jan 03, 2009 07:24 AM
The devil is in the details. Everyone pays lip service to this, but the organizations concerned worked hard for Obama and generally see themselves as Democrats, even if they're not actually part of the DP structures. To many on the left, this is anathema, and they'll set up any number of obstacles to block against uniting with them on any terms save their own. I could give many examples, but I won't bore everyone. In any case, it's not easy. Right now these groups are only talking about mobilizing, which is a change, but there's a long way between words and deeds.
>>Disputes probably involve two other matters (1) how do you work toward attaining movements with sufficient power to accomplish what you indicate - and (2) how do you do it in a way which will then lead further in directions you like rather than dissolve or go in bad directions. Put differently, the current crisis will end - and so will the wars - so, one might say, if that was one's only aim, and one didn't care when - there is no need to do anything. If one wanted those ends, but as quickly as possible - of course different choices arise. If one wants those ends, very quickly, but so as to also be able to then win more - perhaps still different choices arise.<<
You have an immediate program of clear demands to unite a progressive majority and a transitional program of structural reforms to unite a militant but fairly large minority. But neither of those mean little without organizations at the base to give them clout. A key task is to build them, as in the Gramscian 'war of position.' In that sense, I see organization building as the central task, rather than simply fanning the flames to 'build a movement.' Of course, organizations are best built in the thick of movements, but the two tasks are distinct, and I'm stressing one over the other.
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Re: Re: Re: Re: A Shared Problem
By Albert, Michael at Jan 03, 2009 10:40 AM
>The devil is in the details. Everyone pays lip service to this, but the organizations concerned worked hard for Obama and generally see themselves as Democrats, even if they're not actually part of the DP structures. To many on the left, this is anathema, and they'll set up any number of obstacles to block against uniting with them on any terms save their own.
Well, what does uniting with them mean? If it means uncritically supporting whatever they pursue - of course most leftists will reject that, as would you, I assume. If it means supporting agreeable worthy efforts, but without adding insights from the left so as not to ruffle feathers, again, I think most would reject that - at least in theory - as would, I presume, you. So I am not sure what you have in mind.
Sure, there are those who think if a democrat is for something, I must oppose it, and vice versa - but that is just ridiculous, of course - and certainly not a defining attribute of serious leftists... though I agree there is way too much of it to entirely ignore it.
On the other side, however, there are those who would say any democrat who might do good things, and they put obama a the head of their list, should be supported, aggressively, and without much attention to the bad accompanying aspects. I think that that too is not typical on the left - even the not so radical left - but is also too common to ignore. I suspect we agree.
What I don't understand is anyone on the left talking about supporting obama, as opposed to seeking desirable outcomes - which sometimes may involve supporting a program or policy obama is pushing (as compared to being pressured into). Why speak in terms of supporting him, as compared to supporting good program...
Take it back to our day - LBJ was I suspect domestically better, or certainly comparable, to anything we can expect as obama initiated - relative to what the times offered. You would have said at the time, I bet, about various reforms and policies coming from him - yes, good, I hope they pass, we should keep pushing and by our pressure help them pass - and, by the way, LBJ is a horrendous war criminal, as well. Actaully, you would probably have put it a bit more pointedly... I wonder whether you could abide someone having a similar attitude about obama - say a year from now, if it is warranted by, say, continuing the war efforts or even expanding them?
> I could give many examples, but I won't bore everyone. In any case, it's not easy. Right now these groups are only talking about mobilizing, which is a change, but there's a long way between words and deeds.
I think you are saying you could give many examples of people on the left who disparage even communicating with obama supporters, etc. Sure - but so? Why is that so paramount for you, I wonder?
Suppose someone said I can give way more examples - and they certainly could - of people who naively uncritically support obama or have ridiculously inflated expectations, etc. Again, so?
Is it worse or better - that is, is someone with clear understanding of social injustices and the forces preserving them and thus constraining and molding obama - whatever his personal inclinations may or may not be - but an inflexible and pretty reflexive inability to relate to others less radical, worse, or better, than someone who is either ignorant of, or doesn't care about, or is self delusional, about social injustices and the forces preserving them? It seems to me to be a pretty useless question - as is a tone that presupposes an answer on either side of the divide. Better to just push on for the best we can aspire to, no?
I suggested a few things were needed - compelling and inspiring plausible vision in diverse domains of life, aggressive support for programs and organizational forms now that move in desirable long term directions as well, and, of course, facility at respecting viewpoints and addressing them, to expand both the above. I think you should clarify what irks you, if anything, about what I have said and argued here and in many pieces, as well - and if not much, and if we agree, okay, then perhaps tell me who or what on the left - specifically, it is that is in your eye the problem... Is it just highly disparate, very young, and very militant folks who are unable to unite when appropriate - or is also far more prominant and numerous, far better connected and more visible, rather passive and older folks, unable to retain an accurate sense of what is going on?
>>Disputes probably involve two other matters (1) how do you work toward attaining movements with sufficient power to accomplish what you indicate - and (2) how do you do it in a way which will then lead further in directions you like rather than dissolve or go in bad directions. Put differently, the current crisis will end - and so will the wars - so, one might say, if that was one's only aim, and one didn't care when - there is no need to do anything. If one wanted those ends, but as quickly as possible - of course different choices arise. If one wants those ends, very quickly, but so as to also be able to then win more - perhaps still different choices arise.<<
> You have an immediate program of clear demands to unite a progressive majority and a transitional program of structural reforms to unite a militant but fairly large minority.
Well, it is easy to spin out demands that SHOULD galvanize all that, but hard to make it happen, of course - for want of means to communicate at all, and due to cynicism, and lacking the behavioral abilities, etc. etc. Sure.
> But neither of those mean little without organizations at the base to give them clout.
Again, sure - I assume you mean neither means much without organization - the more organization, and the better it is conceived and therefore more durable and inspiring it is, the better - by far - I agree. Is there someone who doesn't agree at that level of generality? as you say, the devil - or disagreement - is in the details...
> A key task is to build them, as in the Gramscian 'war of position.' In that sense, I see organization building as the central task, rather than simply fanning the flames to 'build a movement.'
Okay, fair enough. But what type organization - with what attributes - what unifies it, what role to people have in it - what program emerges, what decision making? All this matters greatly to building a real foundation, I am sure we agree - or assume we do, anyhow.
>Of course, organizations are best built in the thick of movements, but the two tasks are distinct, and I'm stressing one over the other.
I think viewing them as distinct is strange. Instead, the acitvism and dissent should be undertaken - and I think this is actually your main point - with an eye toward having positive implications for the organization building. And vice versa - organizations should be built that can inspire, organize, and carry out activism able to win changes.
I think if you could make the claim - and I hope you can - look, we are on the verge of - here, here, there, and over there - having grassroots, democratic, participatory organization that retains members, etc. etc. and provides the foundation for much stronger and more powerful activism in the future - we should not do anything in the movement sphere - in the streets, that destroys that potential, but instead we should to things that advance it - it would be very very convincing, at least to me. But I am not sure that that claim is makeable, as yet - sadly...
I also think it might make sense to ask, okay, what attitude toward organization blocking activism, to the extent it exists, will be most effective in reducing its deleterious effects - as compared to just venting at such activism...
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: A Shared Problem
By Davidson, Carl at Jan 03, 2009 15:30 PM
Given my read of the lay of the land, all of the Black Block types aren't interested in this, which is fine with me. They can stay in their own cul-de-sac, since given their approach to things, they would only be an obstacle.
Those antiwar groups who want to make the priority on of marching on DC with ANSWER March 21 are different. They could lend a hand in what we're trying if they could change some of their priorities and get outside their comfort zones. At the moment, however, they tend to see what we're trying to do as a big turn to the right.
In one way it is. It's a turn toward those in the wider working class and allied constituencies who hate the war, but have never done anything about it save vote for Obama and are on the cusp of activism, but mainly around the economic crisis.
There's absolutely no reason why UFPJ's minority, as well as the other forces to its left, like ANSWER, couldn't relate to these forces, organizations and constituencies. But they don't, or they only do so in ineffectual ways. They're happy with doing things the way they always have, only more so. That's fine. Unlike the 'black bloc' types, what they're doing doesn't hurt, and makes a positive contribution. 50,000 or 100,000 antiwar and anti-imperialist people marching on DC is never a bad thing. It just doesn't break the new ground that I think needs to be broken in order to make a qualitative advance, and it's hardly me alone thinking this way.
As for the organizations that need building, they're primarily of a mass democratic nature. There is great potential to do so. Just take PDA as an example. In the last four years, and mainly in the last two, they've managed to grow from a few hundred to well over 100,000. They still have problems and weaknesses, but their growth shows that the ground is fertile if you organize around some fruitful ideas. Socialist or other revolutionary organizations will do best that know how to swim in that sea.
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: A Shared Problem
By Albert, Michael at Jan 04, 2009 07:30 AM
> We're seeking to build new alliances and organizations, mainly at the base, on what needs to be done locally to bust the recession-depression and end the wars, and the main forces we seek to do it with is those forces, again at the base--unions, community groups, youth--that we worked with in the Obama campaign.
Okay, and is there anyone, anywhere on the left who is serious and not just posturing who actually thinks that is a bad thing to be doing? If so, of course that would be absurd. But surely you would also agree that there are better and worse ways to be doing what you describe above - wouldn't you?
> The range of demands here--EFCA, Green Jobs, infrastructure spending, cutting defense, bringing the troops home, and so on--these are the basis of unity. Repudiation of Obama is not.
Again, who are you referring to? I don't know anyone serious who spends their time repudiating Obama per se, much less organizing against him per se, whatever that might mean. On the other hand, celebrating Obama, as you imply from above, is also not the basis of unity - rather it is celebrating or advocating or working for desirable programs, which is going to include pushing, even forcing - we hope - Obama to act on them.
It seems to me being honest about Obama, to the extent one talks about him, is the priority for that - and proposing and working for good program, is the priority on that front. And the thing you rightly emphasize is that in both these pursuits, both highly worthy, one can do it in ways that are time bound (without organization) or that look forward (and build organization), and the thing that I add is that one can do all three in ways that point toward the current system working better as the ultimate aim, or ways that point toward transformation far more basic as the ultimate aim - and I prefer the latter.
> Given my read of the lay of the land, all of the Black Block types aren't interested in this, which is fine with me. They can stay in their own cul-de-sac, since given their approach to things, they would only be an obstacle.
There are certainly people who won't participate in what you are talking about - at all - sure, so? Okay, that's a fact, now proceed. But I think using distaste for their stance as a way to avoid sincere and I think quite informed commentary about the need for efforts at program to be honest and insightful, if they are to last, would be wrong.
> Those antiwar groups who want to make the priority on of marching on DC with ANSWER March 21 are different. They could lend a hand in what we're trying if they could change some of their priorities and get outside their comfort zones. At the moment, however, they tend to see what we're trying to do as a big turn to the right.
But you have to see, or should see, that what you propose above could be a big turn to the right - or not. The devil in the details, as you put it. For example, suppose the whole left just lined up in uncritical support of an Obama program that was very limited (to say the least it would be, then, in particular). That would be the left becoming the left or perhaps even the center of the Democratic Party, and it would be a turn to the right.
Surely you can see and agree with that, no?
If you can, then the way to reply to people worried about that is to make clear how it is not where you and others are headed - and one part of that is being capable of seeing and saying the truth about the incoming administration...
> In one way it is. It's a turn toward those in the wider working class and allied constituencies who hate the war, but have never done anything about it save vote for Obama and are on the cusp of activism, but mainly around the economic crisis.
But of course that isn't automatically a turn to the right - it could be, instead, in fact, a turn to the left - a turn to the need to develop activism and organization that is empowering to and congenial to working people - which would be a profound step forward in itself - unless, of course, it was limited to nothing more than mainstream programs to reset the economy, redesign imperial policy, etc.
>There's absolutely no reason why UFPJ's minority, as well as the other forces to its left, like ANSWER, couldn't relate to these forces, organizations and constituencies.
Correct. And to a degree they try. Your own background experience is full of similar histroy - so surely you understand...
> But they don't, or they only do so in ineffectual ways. They're happy with doing things the way they always have, only more so. That's fine. Unlike the 'black bloc' types, what they're doing doesn't hurt, and makes a positive contribution. 50,000 or 100,000 antiwar and anti-imperialist people marching on DC is never a bad thing. It just doesn't break the new ground that I think needs to be broken in order to make a qualitative advance, and it's hardly me alone thinking this way.
Yes, but you act a bit like you are somehow saying something incredibly new here - the times have changed, but the insight isn't new at all. A lot of us have been talking endlessly about your basic point - the need to learn to relate to, learn from, and also contribute to working class constituencies rather than constructing movements and events that are uncongenial to or even hostile to such audiences. Sure. Okay, do it. But some of your tone acts like (a) only you see this rather evident need, and (b) you have already done it, and (c) there aren't any dangers of losing one's way, while doing it. I think that all three points probably hurt your ability to communicate with, say, ufpj and others, at least somewhat...
> As for the organizations that need building, they're primarily of a mass democratic nature. There is great potential to do so. Just take PDA as an example. In the last four years, and mainly in the last two, they've managed to grow from a few hundred to well over 100,000. They still have problems and weaknesses, but their growth shows that the ground is fertile if you organize around some fruitful ideas. Socialist or other revolutionary organizations will do best that know how to swim in that sea.
Sure - but, again, size alone, motion alone, isn't a recipe for success, and you know that - like I do, not least from our own pasts. You are indeed making half that insight a key to your pitch - so to speak - when you say, hey, big crowds are nice but we need grassroots organization. Okay, I agree - need both, for sure. And I am adding one more point - if the two are to persist into the future and keep pushing keep developing keep winning, then we need not only organization and size - but that it has, underneath, comprehension.vision and viable structure.
Now, where we may disagree is that it seems to me there are an endless number of folks, not known participants on the left, overwhelmingly, lining up to increase size and also organization. Where people on the left have a real contribution to make - adding to the mix something that otherwise may be absent - is in the arguments for new structure and comprehension/vision. Sadly, we aren't real good at either - but we know a lot more about both than others not on the left - when the issue is winning lasting and especially, in the end, transformative change.
And I think that feeling is probably why there are folks who feel what you are doing is a turn to the right - they may feel, well, wait, why are these leftists seemingly dropping their vision/comprehension and their understanding of movement dynamics and structure to do what liberals can and are doing....why aren't they engaging with the process - yes - but bringing to it their radicalism?
Now, I don't know if that is happening or not - but if it is, then the criticism is fair. And just because there are others who say don't relate at all - the the insightful criticism shouldn't be ignored. Why not meet it head on and show how it is that what you and other progressives for obama - a horrible name that is horribly misleading if this problem isn't there - are really radicals for change working in the real world with large constituencies?
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: A Shared Problem
By Davidson, Carl at Jan 04, 2009 17:48 PM
But the last thing I'm interested in are debates over structure and process within the existing left coalitions. I'd rather go to the dentist for root canal work.
The best course is simply for us to proceed. This truck is easier to steer once its moving, and if it never gets started, it's all a moot point. I am very interested in broad alliances and mass democratic forms that invite wide participation at the base. Debates over platform content and objectives are a much better focus in helping those develop.
But there is plenty of resistance from our left. That's what the debate, and the split vote, was about at UFPJ, which is how this discussion started. We'll see how it unfolds over the next six months.
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: A Shared Problem
By Albert, Michael at Jan 06, 2009 07:14 AM
Suppose I was building a house - or really, doing anything else complex. I wouldn't want to have silly mind numbing and time consuming debates about ridiculous claims or proposals that defy logic and evidence, either. But not would I want to just proceed - get the truck moving, as you put it - without paying attention to, say, making a foundation first, remembering wiring, etc. etc., that is, without any attention to whether the truck was going in a good direction, in a pattern that would persist, etc.
You emphasize, each time, the need to avoid something that indeed, I agree, should be avoided. So I don't get why you keep repeating it to me, over and over, as if I don't agree about that much. But, you also seem to ignore comments about what we ought to pay attention to... I don't see why.
There is an archetype case of the logic you put forth in this brief note, from the past that I think we both remember. A bunch of folks, not you or I and let's pass on names , went to Seattle, you remember, just about four decades ago, and created the Seattle Liberation Front. Their idea was simple. The time was auspicious, prospects for involvement were good, what they felt they needed was to "get the truck moving" and people would jump on board and speed it up and win great things.
It was a disaster because the motion they incited and engaged led only to dissolution, not only the truck crashing, but the side effects dissuading rather than inspiring, etc. etc.
Okay, I know you must agree that it is possible to move a truck dumbly, counter productively, not just ideally or marginally less than ideally (so not worth the time to pay attention). Thus we must pay attention.
If you want the project you aim to be part of to be democratic and participatory, then all the people involved in gassing up the truck, climbing aboard, and moving on with it - should be comfortable about its destination and speed, etc. - which means discussion of all that should be open and public, refinements from the people on board possible, etc., rather than just a couple of drivers, relatively speaking even knowing what is really going on, much less deciding about it.
I have run with your analogy perhaps a bit excessively, but if we have a disagreement, I suspect it is in these points, somewhere....
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: A Shared Problem
By Davidson, Carl at Jan 06, 2009 17:53 PM
That was the easy part.
Now we have a more difficult task, going to the organizations beyond the usual left, and determining what they want to do, and determine if we can set a common agenda. This will involve hundreds of discussions, at the base and nationally. There's no way to determine ahead of time what exactly will happen, and when. We have set a time frame between the two MLK events for initial efforts, but who knows? Best to get moving on it, and see what we can do. Hence the 'get the truck moving' metaphor.
I'm guessing we differ on the one-third who voted in opposition, and still others to their left, who don't even bother with the hopelessly reformist UFPJ. Their orientation will be the DC demo March 21, Gaza actions and other forms of war resistance. I doubt if they will be budged by continuing the debate. No matter how many times you explain it to them, they think we're just trying to kiss Obama's butt and turn them into Democratic precinct captains who have to kiss the Alderman's ring.
My view is we undertake our various projects. But for myself and many others, we're frustrated with the cul-de-sac of the 'left bloc.' The current crisis has raised some new options, and we'll see what comes of them.
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: A Shared Problem
By Albert, Michael at Jan 08, 2009 08:05 AM
> In UFPJ, we had the discussion you mention, both in Chicago and the discussions leading up to it--one third opposed what we wanted to do, two-thirds were in favor.
Was there an actual proposal voted on? If so, can you perhaps reproduce it here?
> Now we have a more difficult task, going to the organizations beyond the usual left, and determining what they want to do, and determine if we can set a common agenda. This will involve hundreds of discussions, at the base and nationally. There's no way to determine ahead of time what exactly will happen, and when. We have set a time frame between the two MLK events for initial efforts, but who knows? Best to get moving on it, and see what we can do. Hence the 'get the truck moving' metaphor.
Okay, fair enough - but when whoever it is, and it is not obvious, is engaged in one of these discussions from your approach, with people at the base, presumably they have in mind certain aims, certain views, which are "what they want" as compared to what the people they are talking with want. If we have a difference, and so far, you haven't commented on that, it would be there, I assume.
> I'm guessing we differ on the one-third who voted in opposition, and still others to their left, who don't even bother with the hopelessly reformist UFPJ.
I am not sure what you mean, we differ about them? Do you mean, you disagree with them but I agree - well, I don't even know what was voted on, so I don't know what I would have voted.
I certainly don't agree with the reach out and grow priority - nor with the need to hear and relate respectfully to others views', etc. etc. In fact, I suspect I go further than you on these matters, emphasizing, as I do, that our efforts must be structurally, culturally, verbally, etc., congenial to working people, empowering to working people, etc. So what is it that we are discussing - what is it that you think we disagree about? I don't believe doing these things requires us to deny reality, tone down our values, etc.
As far as UFPJ - I was very very active in PCPJ, as was my good friend Leslie Cagan, but perhaps not you, I think - which was the forerunner, if you will, of UFPJ. And I have generally supported the latter, of course, all along. So again, not sure what you are referring to. If we are going to disagree, which would be fine, of course, it will require you to be more explicit, I suspect.
> Their orientation will be the DC demo March 21, Gaza actions and other forms of war resistance. I doubt if they will be budged by continuing the debate. No matter how many times you explain it to them, they think we're just trying to kiss Obama's butt and turn them into Democratic precinct captains who have to kiss the Alderman's ring.
Why is htis so hostile, I wonder? Why can't there be more than one focus? It makes no sense to me to feel that doing x, is good, but not just good, the only good. If someone thinks anti war work ought to be their priority, fine. I see nothing wrong with that. If to hold the view they feel they have to denigrate all other views, I do have a problem with that. But the same goes on the other side. If someone thinks, for example, that doing grassroots outreach in domains where communication is most possible, or perhaps doing activism re the economy, or health or whatever, should be their focus, great. If to hold the view they feel they must denigrate anyone who takes a diffferent stance, say, focussing on the wars - well, that is not good.
Let me go one step further, since there are people on all sides who can't seem to respect more than their own priority focus, the question arises how to relate to those people. Well, criticise, when the issue arises, their monism and rejectionism of others, sure - but not making doing that a constant priority, I think.
> My view is we undertake our various projects.
If so, fine, but I am not sure that is your view. That is, it feels to me like at any opportunity you mirror the people you are constantly critiquing. As they, wrongly, can't seem to pursue their actions respecting that others are doing likewise - so you similarly can't seem to refrain from knocking and even ridiculing those with a different personal agenda than yours. Or that's how it sounds, at times, in any case.
> But for myself and many others, we're frustrated with the cul-de-sac of the 'left bloc.' The current crisis has raised some new options, and we'll see what comes of them.
Indeed. And I hope we all feel like, whatever approach gains traction and advances, that's great - whether it be one we think most likely to, or some other one.
Take care!
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Re: UFPJ and Going Forward
By Ward, Peter at Dec 27, 2008 22:18 PM
As I've mentioned elsewhere, the Democratic Party appears to function as rheostat, taking dissent and harmlessly dissipating it as hot air. That seems to be the case of UFPJ-probably marketing gurus already had the organization earmarked for the role they are presently taking back when they were out petitioning and demonstrating against the war.
IMO, the lesson is UFPJ has outlived its uselfulness apropos left causes and has in some sense become destructive to them.
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By Dominick, Brian at Dec 23, 2008 20:55 PM
On the second point -- without having read anything about UFPJ's latest convention -- I'm left wondering what exactly these Obama-enamored speakers were suggesting. Is the idea that they were trying to basically talk down the movement, basicall saying "Relax, our savior is here"? I understand the attitude you're describing, as I look around and see it has afflicted many a self-deluded progressive. But how exactly is UFPJ moving forward with it? Some links or at least more detail would be helpful.
Otherwise I totally agree with your assessment of the coalition. To be honest, I forget they exist more often than not.
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