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Hello,

Blogs are a familiar feature on the internet - where users post content in an accumulating manner, with comments, and search options, etc. They facilitate expression and exploration, and via attached comments, also debate and synthesis.


Reading and
Navigating Blogs

Our blogs are quite powerful. Each writer can post, as is typically the case. Sustainers who have the option can also post, however. All Blogs appear in the blog system, and sometimes also in content boxes the top page of ZNet - and always via the left menu of the top page - and can be found via searches, etc.

Commenting on blogs follows the blogs, attached at the bottom, and blog comments, like all others, are also visible in many places that show comments including in the forum system. In addition, the entire blog system gathers content for everyone - but one can look at the accumulating content in many ways.

  • For example one can look at one writer's efforts - so one is seeing what is effectively a blog system for that one writer, or Sustainer.
  • One can also look at the content by topic, seeing blogs that are tagged as being about a certain topic - or place, as well. Thus, when doing that, it is a blog system about a topic, or a place, with many contributors.
  • One can look at only writer blogs, or only sustainer blogs, as well.
  • One can look at blogs for particular Groups, too.

All this is easily done using the left menu. Searches allow even more variables and refinements.


Creating Blog Posts

If you are a Sustainer with permission, and are logged in, you will see a link in the left menu for you to post a blog - and you can use that to post one, and then tag it various ways (such as with a topic or place, or a group tag), and once you do, it is in the system with you as the author.

You can also use the console button to the left to post a blog - anytime and from anywhere in the site, as long as you are logged in.

Meanwhile, enjoy the blogs - and, by the way, if you are a Free Member or a Sustainer with a ZSpace page, of course you can put one or more content boxes on it, pulling blog links of any sort you may want to filter for, for example, by you or by your friends or by others - and by topic, about places, for groups, etc.

Blogs

First_191

Elliott Lapinel's Blog

Web Address: http://www.zcommunications.org/zspace/Elliott Lapinel
Bio: I joined the Navy at age 19 in 2004, and left in june of 2008.  My first goal in life was to play the piano, and I had planned on going to school for music when I left the Navy. ... (More)

All Lapinel Blogs

Why don't more people use Z groups?

By Elliott Lapinel at Sep 12, 2010


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This blog is meant to begin some discussion around why more people don't use the Z groups, and as a component of that problem, why so many clubs or activist organizations don't even use online forums.

 

Many people seem to underestimate the potential of  Z groups.   I believe this based on 1) what I have heard from people directly and 2) the discrepancy between the number of people who agree with the general ideals of Znet or parecon, who therefore have an interest in organizing, and the number of people who find Z groups useful for organizing based on these ideas. 

I think the reason Z groups are underestimated is that activist groups rarely make conscious decisions about their modes of organization, and have unexamined biases against online communication.

At the simplest level, Z groups have advantages in communication in comparison to meeting in person, using the telephone, or emailing.  Basically the same advantages as any online forum, but as far as I can tell, online forums in general are underused. 

 

Online forums have advantages over

-meeting in person.  How many people have the ability to instantly meet the people they want to be in the group with whenever/wherever they want?  Let’s take organizing a school club as an example.  If you limit yourself to meeting in person, you will try to find a time that as many people can show up as possible, I would suppose.  But students are available at particularly odd times.  Some work at different times, some take classes at different times.  Furthermore, the inconvenience of the meeting place will be different for different students.  Some have cars and live a few minutes from the school or proposed meeting place, while some don’t have a car, and don’t live in the same city. 

-telephone.  Obviously telephones usually only involve two people at a time.  If you want to be a real group, you want everyone to be more or less equally informed about what everyone is saying, and telephones don’t help very much with that.

-email.  With email you can reach many people without worrying about locations or time conflicts, it quickly becomes difficult to follow the thread of discussion if it becomes more than someone sending short messages.

Yet it is often the case that groups revolve around weekly or bi-weekly hour long sessions, in which it is somewhat kosher to send out a group email on occasion, and fine to phone someone as long as you are friends -(and friendship usually requires some additional connection). 


When asked about this they often say that online communication is:

1) not as likely to lead to friendship and understanding when you can’t see people’s faces, etc.  But having an online forum doesn’t take away your ability to meet people in person, in fact it might make it more likely that people will bother to come out.
2) fake like face book.  But face book is not designed the way a forum is so the comparison is not fair. 
3) just too easy, and will attract people who don’t really want to do anything but make comments.  I think this entails a rather insidious concept for those interested in equality, the concept of the ‘hard core activist’.  I won’t say too much about this because I think it deserves its own discussion. Suffice to say, I think behind the idea of the ‘hard core activist’ is a little bit of elitism going on, and often has little to do with trying to gain political changes.
4) unattractive to people and won’t help organize.  This one is particularly absurd.  Of course if nobody ever promotes an online forum it will become a self-fulfilling prophecy that nobody wants to use it. 

If I have laid out the pros and cons at all fairly, it seems that many groups have not properly considered the pros and cons of online forums/ z groups.  That activist groups make should not be surprising.  It is difficult to know for sure what works and what doesn’t when it comes to organizing.  Many do not have time to be professional organizers, and there are so many factors that go into the success or failure of organizing that it is sometimes difficult to think about them.  Decisions about whether or not to find an online forum often get lost among more immediate concerns.  Nevertheless, it is best to use as much information as one has, even if the information is imprecise. 


Whatever the benefits to meeting in person, activist groups should not weigh the ideal possibilities of meeting in person against online communication, but the reality against online communication.  It may be difficult but groups committed to face to face interaction should ask themselves if face to face interaction is really what they think it is.  Is meeting every two weeks for an hour really conducive to in depth discussion?  Is it even conducive to discussion?  If a typical member of the group only has 3 minutes to communicate their ideas to the group, is that consistent with the reasons why the group is committed in-person-meetings?  Do the practical realities of that organizational method lead to large scale exclusion?
 

Stephen_oct_2010

Communication or Peer Production?

By Roblin, Stephen at Sep 13, 2010 02:13 AM

"it quickly becomes difficult to follow the thread of discussion if it becomes more than someone sending short messages."
 
This is a major problem. How can online communication be harnessed in such a way where it leads to a coherent discourse?
 
One way to overcome this problem is to structure the forum before engaging in a "discussion." I think Z did a good job of this with the PSI project. Other good examples are "peer production" projects such as open access software and wiki pages. A clearly defined long-term project is set and users contribute at their own leisure--adding their own content and editing others' content.

I think perhaps a distinction should be made between "communication" and "peer production." Peer production requires a type of communication, but not in the same sense as a face-to-face meeting, where an agenda is set, a discussion takes place, group decisions are made, and so on. This can occur within a short amount of time. Peer production, on the other hand, would not work as well if  constrained by time. As mentioned before, users contribute at their own leisure, allowing for the product to evolve over time. It seems to me that online tools are conducive to such projects.
 
Now we're back where we started, but with perhaps a useful qualification. How can online communication be harnessed to enable  a coherent discourse to occur in a short amount of time?
 
Not sure if this is helpful.

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First_191

Re: Communication or Peer Production?

By Lapinel, Elliott at Sep 13, 2010 05:30 AM

Ah, good distinction.  I didn't think about structure within online talking, but that is certainly important to examine. 

My main thought was that a lot of people seem to be afraid to talk online, and it just doesn't make any sense.  I don't think making websites better will necessarily lead to more use, because the reasons people underuse the internet are irrational. 

And that part isn't particular to Znet, it's everywhere.  It's odd to me.  When it comes to friendship type things people are all about being online, but when it comes to politics, it's suddently taboo or something, not sure exactly what the deal is. 

Maybe I'm thinking overly negative here, but I wonder if there is some darker reason why some groups prefer to meet in person.  I mean, the end result of having weekly or bi-weekly meetings is that it is easier for a few people to control the agenda.  I mean really, how are 40 people supposed to communicate in one hour every week, let alone every two weeks?  They often don't.  Members often go to listen to a few people explain what the agenda is because that is the only way to proceed.

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Stephen_oct_2010

Re: Re: Communication or Peer Production?

By Roblin, Stephen at Sep 13, 2010 14:04 PM

"how are 40 people supposed to communicate in one hour every week, let alone every two weeks?  They often don't.  Members often go to listen to a few people explain what the agenda is because that is the only way to proceed."

I know this too well. It even happens in smaller groups. The groups I've worked with have made little efforts to counter this unfortunate trend. The tendency for a "coordinator class" to emerge within the Left is strong. Meanwhile those of us, like myself, who are less inclined to take a leadership role during meetings sit there quietly and frustrated.

But how could online communication be a substitute for face-to-face meetings? Could a group of say 40 people enter an online forum and engage in a coherent and productive discussion? I think the forum would have to be incredibly structured for this to occur. Maybe you have some ideas on what this would look like?

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First_191

Re: Re: Re: Communication or Peer Production?

By Lapinel, Elliott at Sep 13, 2010 23:22 PM

Well it isn't necessarily one or another- though that doesn't answer your question.  

But I do want to emphasize that just because you have a way of communicating online doesn't mean you have to stop face to face meetings.  It seems to be a common view that you can't have both.  The internet seems to be used only as a last resort - there aren't many online forums where people know each other in person as well. 

I think 40 people could have a productive discusion online for the needs of many groups, though there are certainly problems that could come up. 

How to organize forums, or for that matter in person meetings, to allow maximum participation is an important thing to think about, but seems pretty tricky.  It seems that it begs the question about how you organize certain groups non-hierarchically.

I plan on opening a separate blog for this, but I have been wondering if there are ways of really making good pareconish institutions for something like a general student activist club.  Creating balanced job complexes takes a little more creativity when you don't have clearly defined jobs to begin with, and I find it hard to come up with an organization that instills solidarity, other than in the ideology of the group. 

I have seen one club that created separate committees who had authority over their particular area, fundraising for example, or creating a free speech forum.  I'm not sure how meaningful the committees were in practice however.  In some cases it seemed about as non-hierchical as someone pointing out that you can start your own club if you want to.  (If you want to start a speechmaking committe why should you expect any more help than if you did the same in a group with a centralized structure?  If you were allowed in the club with decentralized committees you might have an advantage by being able to vote, which would create solidarity because people might want to give you what you want in exchange for your vote on something else, but the same would be true in a more centralized organization).   Though I think a lot of the important issues are very detailed. A lot probably depends on how clear the purpose of the group is. 

 

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Hlozsoc

Re: Re: Re: Re: Communication or Peer Production?

By Owens, Sarah at Sep 19, 2010 20:33 PM

Probably stupid question:  Are there any groups that use Z groups to organize in the manner your blog contemplates?

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