...and yes, I forgot to mention that crabgrass also features a tagging system, hehe!

Hi all!

I think what it's being done here is cool and very important for the future of Zcom!

Talking about the technical side of things, I think Crabgrass would be a better candidate than Google Docs for what the group is trying to set up (in terms of collaborative and decision making tools): you can see a live version of it on we.riseup.net/

The people of ZNet-it used it for a while about a year ago (I think Arif was the one who pointed it to us in the first place). It's a framework which integrates collaborative wikis, discussion pages, different kinds of polling tools, setting of tasks... Single users can join groups (or a specific committee inside a group), and groups can federate into networks.

I think many ideas could also be copied from there and applied to ZSpace in order to foster people interaction.

As of Firefox showing scary warnings, it depends on the fact that Jon chose to make all connections to zconsumerscouncil.org encrypted (notice the https://). To establish a secure/encrypted connection, web sites must first send to the browser a certificate that shows their identity (like, "hey, look I am paypal.com!"). The browser must then decide whether to trust the web site or not (encrypted connections are often used to send higly confidential data like credit card numbers etc.). If the web developer has bought the certificate from a so called certificate authority (which signed it electronically) the browser won't complain because it's shipped with a list of certificate authorities it knows it should trust. But if the web developer chose not to enrich some parasite company that makes bucks out of its own name, the certificate will simply be self-signed and the browser will not trust it unless YOU tell it to.

So, in this case (and in the case of we.riseup.net as well, if someone wants to take a look at it) it's safe to tell firefox to trust the site you are visiting (adding a permanent exception to its rules).

cheers

I have no problem with abandoning the existing wiki.  I would volunteer to admin another though it sounds like there are folks here who have more knowledge than I have.

I also did not like the security warning when I tried Jon's link to his wiki and in fact I backed out and haven't visited it.  What's that all about?

I'm just a bit overwhelmed by everything that's hapening here right now and need to take some time to try and catch up with u'all.  I'll reread Jon's blog and try and figure out what's happening.

Jon,

"I think the best way to tackle the above topics is for people to volunteer for the topic in a post below.  And then other users can respond in the appropriate forum thread."

So, you mean, volunteer to take each numbered item and put it in the forum to discuss each idea separately. That sounds good.

I volunteer for 3 or 4 or 5 or 6. But, not the technical site related ones.

So, let's say I will take 3, if no one else cares, but will take any other I listed, if someone wants 3.

w00t!

I'm on the wiki! It's like walking in the new place at the start of moving day!

Cliff

First on A.K.'s comments:

Thanks for the digital love. Yep, I'm on dial-up. And funky it is. YSlow? What's that? Lyrics are, to a few of us, an important part of the oral histories: ballads, action and organizing tools, and some beautiful music. But whether it's quotes or lyrics it's whether we can store/organize them effectively. For instance, on Z here when I enter a quote or lyric I want to be able link 'em to my personal ZSpace or tag 'em so I can organize them. They'd be useful for something like Top 4 (Top 10) and/or Hot 4 lists. Or maybe as sidebars/links for new material. 

On the blogpost:

Woo-hoo! Another wiki. Also, for others who didn't know, Terry Sullivan is trying to resurrect the ol' wiki, too. (http://www.zcommunications.org/blog/view/2669). [Just now saw your posts over there, Jon] I'm interested in entering a rotation of helping out moderate and I certainly don't mind a longer stint to get started. Whoa, I'm not so familiar with bugtracking, but it sure looks effective.

Teleconferencing might also be effective if it's sure to include Michael and/or Chris, too (they're the primary programmers/administrators, right?). But, I'm don't know what I can do with dial-up. Do we need an hour a week quite yet? I would definitely like to meet folks by voice but maybe until we're clear on what's on the table, where the group says 'aye' and what tasks are going down we could meet a little less often. Once every 2 weeks or less even? I think a lot of good organizing will be happening mostly electronically.

As far as ideas for stuff for the wiki:

-Can we mirror Z's archive? I presume it's a big undertaking but I throw it out there just to learn more about the issue. It's my basic feeling that I'd love to protect what Z has up. On the other hand a good backup system probably takes care of that?

-I'd love a wiki to not only organize info in new and more exciting ways but use it to be an increasing good educating and organizing tool. Citations, graphics, trends, historical analyses that we can drag around and slap up there to our spaces, put on our area pages, print out for a pamphlet. But, that'll have to grow as I figure what next to ask for.

-Forums and e-mail sounds cool. The only don'ts off the top of my head are when are duplicating or being too redundant about what's happening here on ZNet.

As far as admin. stuff, if we can utilize unix from our remote spots (w/o unix software?) then maybe some of us can learn basic stuff (a new instructional/tutorial!)

I have a google account, what's google docs? I'll look around for it, too.

and those are my thoughts...

Cliff

The Wiki gave Firefox a very off-putting security certificate error.  I managed to get past it, but it was pretty scary!

One of the things I think we should do is suggest how to improve the speed of the website.  I bet we could find ways to half the average page load time. We could have a wiki page on that. It's a matter of economic justice (many people still have dialup, discounted slow broadband, or slow computers), and for people with broadband having a fast website will make your users love you.  Using YSlow is a good starting place.

I'd focus on fixing the bugs and removing usability issues to the current site before adding functions.  In fact you could make a good case for eliminating some of the lesser used functions (personally I think lyrics and quotes are silly).  This site needs a strong core (which Zmag content provides), and to build from that.