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Forum Post Albert: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Libya and the Pavolian instinct...

Forum Post, March, 24 2011 Michael Albert
Albert's ZSpace page

"Michael I'm not arguing that there are no circumstances where a "no fly zone and modest other acts could save lives of dissidents, perhaps preserving their possibility of ousting Qaddaf."   What I'm saying borders on t...

Forum Post Nikonov: The very reason of new colonial war IS

Forum Post, March, 24 2011 Alla Nikonov

to chock Arabian revolutions. Only imperialists like Juan Cole and his ilk could pretend it is otherwise. 

Forum Post Khan: A valuable article

Forum Post, March, 24 2011 Nasir Khan
Khan's ZSpace page

Thank you Michael for presenting your thoughts in a systematic way. I think many readers of your blog  will appreciate your clear perspective on the issues you have delat with.  

Forum Post Jones: Tortuous

Forum Post, March, 24 2011 David Jones
Jones's ZSpace page

This IS a difficult format as that whole exchange demonstrates but it is still better than no dialogue at all (I think?) Being someone who supports the no-fly zone and knows full well the imperialist nature of Wetern foreign policy, I appreciate ...

Forum Post Mpsmith01: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Libya and the Pavolian instinct...

Forum Post, March, 23 2011 Martin Mpsmith01
Mpsmith01's ZSpace page

Michael, Since my original post was to say I appreciated your thoughts on the situation and it was that post that actually caused me to take a breath on the issue of right or wrong of the intervention I guess I should now come full circle back to...

Forum Post Albert: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Libya and the Pavolian instinct...

Forum Post, March, 23 2011 Michael Albert
Albert's ZSpace page

I hope I don't misconstrue anything you have said in this reply... I am going to put my view on this as clear as I can, and then perhaps I won't write on it again, unless something quite new surfaces...   You note: "I find ...

Forum Post Albert: Re: Libya - What Now?

Forum Post, March, 23 2011 Michael Albert
Albert's ZSpace page

Surely we don't think that corrupt motives make any intervention at all, under any circumstances, apriori something that no one of good will should support. In any case, I don't. And the minute the possibility of a un or even a unilateral ...

Forum Post Albert: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Libya and the Pavolian instinct...

Forum Post, March, 23 2011 Michael Albert
Albert's ZSpace page

Not sure where we went wrong, here - but let's try again. Communicating this way is difficult. If you didn't use the word delusional I guess maybe someone else did and I carried it over, confusing the issue. Sorry. The only offer on the t...

Forum Post Vincent: Libya - What Now?

Forum Post, March, 23 2011 John Vincent
Vincent's ZSpace page

I didn't find anything objectionable in Michael Albert's framing of the situation in an effort to foster a discussion on Libya, one that looks forward and not backward.  With that said, I do think some discuss...

Forum Post Mpsmith01: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Libya and the Pavolian instinct...

Forum Post, March, 23 2011 Martin Mpsmith01
Mpsmith01's ZSpace page

My apologies.  In my previous post I thought I italicized your comments with the intention interspersing my responses point by point. This was lost in the posting. I hope you can decipher it as is. Martin

Forum Post Mpsmith01: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Libya and the Pavolian instinct...

Forum Post, March, 23 2011 Martin Mpsmith01
Mpsmith01's ZSpace page

One doesn't have to believe the U.S. changed their spots - suddenly has good motives - to think something they do, the u.s. or un (which is very different than the u.s. per se), will have desirable effects, especially given additional pressure...

Forum Post Albert: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Libya and the Pavolian instinct...

Forum Post, March, 23 2011 Michael Albert
Albert's ZSpace page

One doesn't have to believe the U.S. changed their spots - suddenly has good motives - to think something they do, the u.s. or un (which is very different than the u.s. per se), will have desirable effects, especially given additional pressure...

Forum Post Wesley: Re: Re: Re: Re: Libya and the Pavolian instinct...

Forum Post, March, 23 2011 William Wesley
Wesley's ZSpace page

Sir, I never said that the US cares about lives.  I said there was a peaceful offer on the table - which you seem to prefer to ignore or pretend not to exit.  A real option.  This would prevent escalation more than anything.  S...

Forum Post Mpsmith01: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Libya and the Pavolian instinct...

Forum Post, March, 23 2011 Martin Mpsmith01
Mpsmith01's ZSpace page

Michael I'm not arguing that there are no circumstances where a "no fly zone and modest other acts could save lives of dissidents, perhaps preserving their possibility of ousting Qaddaf."   What I'm saying borders on the del...

Forum Post Albert: Re: Re: Re: Libya and the Pavolian instinct...

Forum Post, March, 23 2011 Michael Albert
Albert's ZSpace page

Did I say the U.S. was intent upon saving lives? I don't think so. Quite the opposite - lives are not something U.S. policy cares about, save when it has to snuff them out or alibi away their deaths. I don't think anyone on here would clai...

Forum Post Albert: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Libya and the Pavolian instinct...

Forum Post, March, 23 2011 Michael Albert
Albert's ZSpace page

Sorry - yes, administrator is me - Michael. I have to go on the site as administrator to do various functions, and as me to comment, etc. Sometimes, sadly, I confuse the two and post something while on as admin - even though I think I am on as me...

Forum Post Mpsmith01: Re: Re: Re: Re: Libya and the Pavolian instinct...

Forum Post, March, 23 2011 Martin Mpsmith01
Mpsmith01's ZSpace page

I'm not clear on who "Administrator, site" is.  Is this Michael? I heard a lot of people citing the precedent of Bosnia/Kosovo.  Juan Cole whose value as an analyst has plunged in my opinion actually says we should look to...

Forum Post Wesley: Re: Re: Libya and the Pavolian instinct...

Forum Post, March, 23 2011 William Wesley
Wesley's ZSpace page

Michael, I can't agree with the humanitarian premise of the attack - namely that the so-called no fly zone is to protect Libyans or prevent a massacre.  For the reasons discussed above, this premise is false. I can listen to the falseho...

Forum Post Administrator: Re: Re: Re: Libya and the Pavolian instinct...

Forum Post, March, 23 2011 Site Administrator
Administrator's ZSpace page

There is no such thing, I think in anyone's mind, of a blanket type of intervention that would always be worthy. Certainly we can't and wouldn't say that a no fly zone inside one country, imposed by other countries, in the name of civi...

Forum Post Itulain: Not humanitarian reasons

Forum Post, March, 23 2011 Mikel Itulain

"The United States is ostensibly bombing Libya for humanitarian reasons". Not true. Bombing is not a humanitarian reason and is not for humanitarian reasons. US never did it for humanitarian reasons, they have good reasons but n...

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