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  • New Sustainer Comments

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      Hi Michael B.,  I just noticed this while looking in our new forum system. I would be happy for you to review. Please send to me when done...
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      Speaking of celebrities, I think it is telling that so many celebrities who are not leftist radicals but fairly standard Hollywood liberals appear in "A People Speak." Zinn wrote with such a mild manner that I think he made non-radical liberals more comfortable but at the same time I think there are a alot of people who express admiration for Zinn who really don't understand his radicalism. There are a couple of non-radical liberal acquaintances on my facebook friends list who paid tribute to Zinn when he died and one young lady even allowed that she was very sad but I wonder if either of them have actually read any of his works. I remember an English professor at my undergraduate institution who expressed warm admiration for Zinn but she is a fairly standard liberal. Perhaps "A People's History" is going to become or has already become a book that you read, or pretend to read, if you want to seem sophisticated and part of the counter-culture. Perhaps some people have not read Zinn but have heard that he tells history from the point of view of ordinary Americans and think that it is a very nice thing even if they haven't read much about Zinn's interpretation of specific historical events and phenomenon.It's not a knock on Zinn but I can't imagine Ben Affleck and Matt Damon getting celebrities together to do a movie about one of Chomsky's books. Zinn  probably had more mainstream acceptance than Chomsky because he often wrote in the manner of a kindly Catholic priest and didn't have the level of intellectual fierceness as Chomsky. And Zinn wrote little on Israel-Palestine, which is understandable and not a knock on him.. But if he did write on Israel-Palestine I'm sure he would not have been given a column in The Progressive.The quote from Zinn at the end of this article demonstrates why Zinn had a certain level of acceptance that Chomsky didn't have. He writes with such a mild manner. He says " I wish President Obama would listen carefully to Martin Luther King.....What would Martin Luther King do? And what would Martin Luther King say?’ And if he only listened to King, he would be a very different president than he’s turning out to be so far." Of course, I think Zinn knew that politics dosen't actually work that way. Substantial progressive change won't come about merely ("if only") when Obama starts paying attention to MLK's radical ideas.  But Zinn chose the tactic in that interview of criticizing Obama in rather grandfatherly fashion and some folks might find that manner of speaking more palatable than Chomsky's more blunt appraisal.
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      Perhaps Goodman thinks that people who have never heard of Zinn who  read  this article might become interested in Zinn if they see he has credentials like  being mentioned in Good Will Hunting or that a "star studded" cast appeared in a movie based on his work.Goodman did a better job covering Zinn's life in the segment of the show where Chomsky and Anrove and, I think Naomi Klein, appeared to discuss Zinn's life. Zinn had such a rich life it is difficult to fully impart that richness in a short article but I think more important than the celebrity connections were things like his work against the Vietanam war (e.g. getting beat up by the cops), his battles with John Silber, (the right wing lunatic former president of Boston University), how a People's HIstory has been taught in classrooms in this country (how many I would be interested to know), how the presence of the book has influenced efforts to teach kids history, how the book has caused controversy among elite intellectuals, the resistance to using the book as a textbook in schools, the resistance of some parents when Zinn was invited to speak to high school classes, and so on.
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      I am a daily user of the ZCom site, and I hadn't noticed the poll until yesterday. Since I like to participate in active debates, I usually navigate directly to the ZSpace page. But the poll isn't visible there. I went to the ZNet page proper last week, where I saw the "Endorse our proposal" box. I read it and being quite excited about it, I immediately clicked on the "Endorse" link... which means that I completely overlooked the last paragraph where the poll is mentioned.So for me, the poll was completely overshadowed by the "Fifth Internationale" proposal!I finally noticed a link to the poll yesterday; I can't even remember where. Anyway, I've started taking the poll.
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    • Monday, Feb 08, 2010
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      Again my title, verbatim.  This also sort of happened with "The Empire's New Clothes."  Perhaps just a coincidence but maybe not (I have reason to suspect not).More importantly, this is not an impressive write up!  I'm a little insulted by the superficiality. Please  the celebrity attachment: we have to hear of course about Hollywood actor Matt Damon and about the famous author Alice W.  and about the "star-studded" nature (so what?) of the cast on the documentary and we have to be told that NC is "world-renowned linguist."  Come on. This does not come off well in my opinion. It does not do justice to HZ.Please do better and be a little more careful on you're title-checks AG and DM  (it's starting to look a little creepy) I think these 2 issues I'm raising -- (a) posslby lifting my titles and (b) celebrity attachment and superficiality --- strike me as potentially interrelated.  
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      ...I can't read any of the comments under the new system...so did not know whether the first version of my comment went up or not hence the second (or third, i have no idead at this point) one/version.  My password is iffy now (it is unclear when and if Im am actually logged in) and I no longer see the  "quick edit" function that previously allowed corrections....Still, I assume someone somewhere can read what I wrote (I can't) and that the basic point is clear enough.... 
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      you know i have heard a lot complaints growing over the recent years of how DN! is becoming too focused on celebrities and leftist intellecutals (professors and such).
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      I just want to remind you that in point #4 of the PSI proposal, it is made explicit that what is being proposed is a multi-'current' alliance, in which there would be ongoing debates over differences of strategy, analysis and vision.Moreover, there is no mention in the entire proposal of 'parecon,' 'parpolity,' or any other parts of the 'parsoc' vision(s) advocated by many ZNet supporters, including many (but by no means all) signatories. Some of the signatories are Marxists, some are eco-feminists, some are Trotskyists, some are anarchists, some are syndicalists, some are radical social democrats, and so on, and there are supporters and critics of parecon among the 'initial endorsers.' (Chomsky, for instance, endorses the proposal, but does not endorse parecon. Same with Michael Lowy, Vandana Shiva, and others.)More generally, it is important to see that this is an intervention in the debate, which originated and is mainly proceeding in Latin America, about Hugo Chavez's proposal for a new International. It isn't an idea that came out of the PPS [Project for a Participatory Society] groups, like the ones you mention (and which I have also been involved in). It is (1) an expression of broad support for the basic idea put forward by Chavez, and (2) a more focussed argument about what basic form that idea should take in practice (like being multi-current, and giving equal weight to a range of issues like race, gender, class, ecology, etc., rather than focusing on one or two of these at the expense of other issues, etc.).For these reasons, it is very misleading, I think, to frame the PSI proposal as a suggestion to create a bigger, more global version of the PPS project that has basically emerged from ZNet.It would be a mistake, in other words, to confuse the label "participatory socialist International" with the very different idea of a "parsoc International." What is proposed in the PSI document is not a parsoc International.
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      "It would be a mistake, in other words, to confuse the label "participatory socialist International" with the very different idea of a "parsoc International." What is proposed in the PSI document is not a parsoc International."You're absolutely right, and that's why I endorsed it. By the way, there's no field on the left of the document for endorsers in Japan. 
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